Runner Volumes

Alan Roehrich · 01-06-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daran Summerton

Just pocket ported the crap out of a set of 441's and with pro flow valves I am reading 154 on a 161 max! Not sure what the issue is? Guess I have bad castings LOL

I wish I had those before you ported them.

Greg Hill · 01-06-2009, 11:00 AM

Jeff I also talked to Bruce more than once last year about this. I think this was a mean spirited and punitive rule change that didn't come from Bruce but farther up the food change. I really think they don't care.

Greg

Ven302 · 01-07-2009, 08:34 AM

Consider this,
Maybe NHRA is trying to make the cylinder head issue so oblique that it will facilitate the introduction of "spec" heads from the aftermarket. If an aftermarket supplier can supply 80-90% of the class and provide accurate port dimensions, cc min and max, cross section, templates all of a sudden it makes sense.Will there ever be a 230 6 cyl head? Probably not, but the amount of those types of combinations are no where near the amount of sbc/bbc/ford/dodge V8s in stock(nitro joe would know). Is this "pure" as the old "stock" eliminator, probably not. If someone can buy some performer rpm (or whatever is approved) heads and build a stocker, it would appeal to a broader group (mostly those that do not see the merit of all of the hard work). I am not trying to p anyone off, ( I deeply respect what stocker engine builders can do) but when someone asks me if they can build a stocker and you explain what some of the stuff really costs they get intimidated. I am not trying to discount the efforts of those of you who are really good at what you do, but if NHRA will not consider the knowledge of Woodro, FJ, and any of the stocker "head guys" (even their own "pouring" records) what could possibly be next? They (NHRA) obviously have a different agenda then what meets the eye.

Dick Butler · 01-07-2009, 09:02 AM

New 207 carbs, New Aluminum heads for big blocks, New cranks, new rods new pistons to spec sheet. New Blocks for strength. We are there now we just need to find a company who wants the work. World might be the one to do it. Why buy old rusty castings and spend the work to be off on CCs and worse create all this foolishness of tech currently sees. Make some good ones with todays technology and move forward. Cut the crap and cost at the same time.
I hate to say it but I think making one casting for small block low pro and one for high compression for ALL stock and SS would be the smart way to create the large number needed to justify making them. Simplify tech and stop the frustration in tear down.
One casting of any family of motors the same thing. Just think it would also help stop the tech book finding an obscure combo wrongly factored and ignored by tech for 5 years too..
Thanks for listening... Dick

Alan Roehrich · 01-07-2009, 09:43 AM

No thanks, I'll pass. I have no desire to see or participate in "aftermarket GT crate motor crossbred stock eliminator".

X-TECH MAN · 01-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

No thanks, I'll pass. I have no desire to see or participate in "aftermarket GT crate motor crossbred stock eliminator".

I guess you will be staying home or taking up Golf or some other activity then as "ITs A Coming". Soon to theaters near you. In some cases its already here with the Edelbrock heads on the 390/428 Fords and others.The hand writing is on the wall already.

Bruce Noland · 01-07-2009, 10:16 AM

X tech man
I know you are a purist about this tech stuff but nhra is never going crate motor racing.

Dwight Southerland · 01-07-2009, 10:22 AM

What's the deal????? We already have specs that we have been working with for years - carbs, combustion chamber volumes, bore, stroke, etc. If you find a carb in the junk yard that is over size on spec, you don't use it 'cause you know it won't pass tech. Same with the runner volumes. Don't use a head that won't pass or make it pass. Just because we haven't had a spec for runner volumes before is no reason to get your shorts in a wad. Deal with it like everything else. If you think NHRA's spec is wrong, appeal the best you can. If you have spent maximum $$ for a heads that are now illegal, such is the environment of NHRA class racing. This area has been an issue for years and now that Glendale has spoken, you have your supper on your plate. Are you going to eat it or starve? Since the way they have dealt with the SRAC is very telling about their procedures, your belly-aching probably is a waste of energy.

The "measure and add 1 or 2 percent" idea was used during the establishment of the current SS specs. Maybe not consistently across the board, but that was the intention so that there would be some cushion. Of course, you had some enterprising factions who made their ante over the top during the time the tech people were gathering data, but many of the current specs have a bit of extra built in. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Ed Fernandez · 01-07-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

New 207 carbs, New Aluminum heads for big blocks, New cranks, new rods new pistons to spec sheet. New Blocks for strength. We are there now we just need to find a company who wants the work. World might be the one to do it. Why buy old rusty castings and spend the work to be off on CCs and worse create all this foolishness of tech currently sees. Make some good ones with todays technology and move forward. Cut the crap and cost at the same time.
I hate to say it but I think making one casting for small block low pro and one for high compression for ALL stock and SS would be the smart way to create the large number needed to justify making them. Simplify tech and stop the frustration in tear down.
One casting of any family of motors the same thing. Just think it would also help stop the tech book finding an obscure combo wrongly factored and ignored by tech for 5 years too..
Thanks for listening... Dick

Welcome to CHEVY Stock Eliminator.Brought to you by NHRA and George Orwell.The way tech is going just let the federal govt. take over,they couldn't *#@# it up any worse than the morons in Glendora.
BYE bye S/SS.

Ed F.

Mike Pearson · 01-06-2009, 11:10 AM

Hey Daran. Jay Slane had similar results with a set of 441 heads that he is working on. All of the small block heads that I have CC'd before porting have come up about 6 CC's smaller than the SS limit. I am not sure how that compares with big block or other brands. NHRA will probably just allow some mild porting and epoxy in the intake and welded exhaust like SS. They couldnt control the head rule in super stock so they changed the rules. They will probably do the same for stock. Then a good set of heads will cost 7500.00 but you wont have to worry about passing teardown. As long as the valve size is correct and the CC's are right you will pass.

01-06-2009, 11:00 AM	#2
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes Jeff I also talked to Bruce more than once last year about this. I think this was a mean spirited and punitive rule change that didn't come from Bruce but farther up the food change. I really think they don't care. Greg

01-07-2009, 08:34 AM	#3
Ven302 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Stoney Creek Posts: 262 Likes: 41 Liked 34 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes Consider this, Maybe NHRA is trying to make the cylinder head issue so oblique that it will facilitate the introduction of "spec" heads from the aftermarket. If an aftermarket supplier can supply 80-90% of the class and provide accurate port dimensions, cc min and max, cross section, templates all of a sudden it makes sense.Will there ever be a 230 6 cyl head? Probably not, but the amount of those types of combinations are no where near the amount of sbc/bbc/ford/dodge V8s in stock(nitro joe would know). Is this "pure" as the old "stock" eliminator, probably not. If someone can buy some performer rpm (or whatever is approved) heads and build a stocker, it would appeal to a broader group (mostly those that do not see the merit of all of the hard work). I am not trying to p anyone off, ( I deeply respect what stocker engine builders can do) but when someone asks me if they can build a stocker and you explain what some of the stuff really costs they get intimidated. I am not trying to discount the efforts of those of you who are really good at what you do, but if NHRA will not consider the knowledge of Woodro, FJ, and any of the stocker "head guys" (even their own "pouring" records) what could possibly be next? They (NHRA) obviously have a different agenda then what meets the eye.

01-07-2009, 09:02 AM	#4
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes New 207 carbs, New Aluminum heads for big blocks, New cranks, new rods new pistons to spec sheet. New Blocks for strength. We are there now we just need to find a company who wants the work. World might be the one to do it. Why buy old rusty castings and spend the work to be off on CCs and worse create all this foolishness of tech currently sees. Make some good ones with todays technology and move forward. Cut the crap and cost at the same time. I hate to say it but I think making one casting for small block low pro and one for high compression for ALL stock and SS would be the smart way to create the large number needed to justify making them. Simplify tech and stop the frustration in tear down. One casting of any family of motors the same thing. Just think it would also help stop the tech book finding an obscure combo wrongly factored and ignored by tech for 5 years too.. Thanks for listening... Dick

01-07-2009, 09:43 AM	#5
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,106 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes No thanks, I'll pass. I have no desire to see or participate in "aftermarket GT crate motor crossbred stock eliminator". __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

01-07-2009, 10:16 AM	#7
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes X tech man I know you are a purist about this tech stuff but nhra is never going crate motor racing. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-07-2009, 10:22 AM	#8
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,000 Likes: 64 Liked 777 Times in 193 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes What's the deal????? We already have specs that we have been working with for years - carbs, combustion chamber volumes, bore, stroke, etc. If you find a carb in the junk yard that is over size on spec, you don't use it 'cause you know it won't pass tech. Same with the runner volumes. Don't use a head that won't pass or make it pass. Just because we haven't had a spec for runner volumes before is no reason to get your shorts in a wad. Deal with it like everything else. If you think NHRA's spec is wrong, appeal the best you can. If you have spent maximum $$ for a heads that are now illegal, such is the environment of NHRA class racing. This area has been an issue for years and now that Glendale has spoken, you have your supper on your plate. Are you going to eat it or starve? Since the way they have dealt with the SRAC is very telling about their procedures, your belly-aching probably is a waste of energy. The "measure and add 1 or 2 percent" idea was used during the establishment of the current SS specs. Maybe not consistently across the board, but that was the intention so that there would be some cushion. Of course, you had some enterprising factions who made their ante over the top during the time the tech people were gathering data, but many of the current specs have a bit of extra built in. I'm sure there are exceptions.

01-06-2009, 11:10 AM	#10
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,445 Likes: 614 Liked 1,919 Times in 576 Posts	Re: Runner Volumes Hey Daran. Jay Slane had similar results with a set of 441 heads that he is working on. All of the small block heads that I have CC'd before porting have come up about 6 CC's smaller than the SS limit. I am not sure how that compares with big block or other brands. NHRA will probably just allow some mild porting and epoxy in the intake and welded exhaust like SS. They couldnt control the head rule in super stock so they changed the rules. They will probably do the same for stock. Then a good set of heads will cost 7500.00 but you wont have to worry about passing teardown. As long as the valve size is correct and the CC's are right you will pass. __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS