Where are the lower class cars?

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Dwight,true to a point about costs.But how many 305 cores (blocks,heads,intakes,cranks,
etc) can you buy for the cost of a 396/375,427 any hp rating,for that matter a 390 AMC?
I believe for the most part lower class stockers are built by guys with not a lot to spend.My car,which I bought for $125 came only in the class guide with a 258 6 cylinder.If I wanted to build a 1969 SC/Rambler (390 4 speed only) a ragtag original car would be over $10K.
Even a clone rambler non post car commands a good buck,for a rambler.
I built my car on my small budget.I've had a moderate amount of success in the past 11 years.I've worked hard at finding a way (with a lot of help from Tom Goldman) to get the car to run the number on the window.I think we've succeded at that.Now I need to race more to get the tree down again.Any car can be successful,fast or slow,with the right driver with the right mindset.

Well said Ed!

[Michael Beard]

I just wanted to verify that you can't win with a slow car.




.... but you can Runner-Up!

Had a great weekend with the Turismo at the IHRA Pro-Am at Dunn-Benson, falling to World Champ Richard Alford in the finals. Ran back to back .91's in qualifying, and it was heading for .93's and .94's all day today until it grew legs in the finals.

Had a fairly productive test session with the new Super Stock combination in the Volare, too. 10 runs under our belt, picked it up .22 and 5 mph from start to finish, and we already know a bunch more things we need to do. Overall, felt like we didn't do too bad for complete EFI newbies. Thanks to Southland Speed, Sloan Racing Engines, and the large number of people who were kind enough to let us tickle their brains. Oh yeah, Richard got me 2nd round of Super Stock, too. Great job as always, bud!

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by jmantle

After running a "slow" car for the last 4 years, When I ran my super pro car, I was usually the faster car and found the distraction of the car in the other lane was a problem for me at times. The biggest issue I see for the slower cars is the big swings with the wind and weather, just wish for a calm, cloudy day.
Jim Mantle U,V/SA 6632

I said I wouldn't write any more about this, but when I read something like this, it is more than I can do, not to respond. I apologize to all who are offended by posts that offer more truth than is palatable...

RE: ":I think the worst red light issue is a non issue. Having a clean tree most of the time is more of an advantage."

Are you under the impression that if they (NHRA) employ a double red light system, you will LOSE your valued, "CLEAN TREE?"

You won't; it will still be there, as always.

All it (the new system) would do is force EVERYONE to face the same red light jeopardy, like you always do, when running against a second-leaving car.

Is there anything unfair about that, making the red light rule equal for all cars?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

i said i wouldn't write any more about this, but when i read something like this, it is more than i can do, not to respond. I apologize to all who are offended by posts that offer more truth than is palatable...

Re: ":i think the worst red light issue is a non issue. Having a clean tree most of the time is more of an advantage."

are you under the impression that if they (nhra) employ a double red light system, you will lose your valued, "clean tree?"

you won't; it will still be there, as always.

All it (the new system) would do is force everyone to face the same red light jeopardy, like you always do, when running against a second-leaving car.

Is there anything unfair about that, making the red light rule equal for all cars?

xxx

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by jmantle

After running a "slow" car for the last 4 years, I think the worst red light issue is a non issue. Having a clean tree most of the time is more of an advantage. When I ran my super pro car, I was usually the faster car and found the distraction of the car in the other lane was a problem for me at times. The biggest issue I see for the slower cars is the big swings with the wind and weather, just wish for a calm, cloudy day.
Jim Mantle U,V/SA 6632

Jim , I don't think it's a non-issue, but I think it's a minor issue.
I do know plenty of people who's partial justification for moving up to A-B-C cars, was it gave the other guy the first opportunity to red light.

That being said, it was never enough reason for me to NOT build a slower car.
In reality , if you can't string together 4 or 5 good lights in a row, you're not going to win much, leaving first or second.

There were several " first" red lights this weekend. I'm surprised we haven't heard about them yet, here.. .But that's another thread, isn't it?

[Dwight Southerland]

"In reality , if you can't string together 4 or 5 good lights in a row, you're not going to win much, leaving first or second."

Exactly.

But, when the second-leaving competitor is not forced to prove he can do that better than the first-leaving competitor, there is an advantage.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Dwight,true to a point about costs.

Any car can be successful,fast or slow,with the right driver with the right mindset.

I tried to communicate your point about costs, Ed. What I was trying to get at was if you were going to build a car from scratch, there's not much difference in price in a fully tricked out fast car (say a D-E/S Duster) and a fully tricked out slower car of the same genre (say an O/S Volare SW).

Your second statement that I quoted from you is right on. Determination and desire are maybe more valuable than speed or dollars. I don't expect the people who are currently competing in those upper classes to sell their cars and build something that would be 3-4 seconds slower, I just want to encourage participation. If we make it look like you have to spend $25K + to even be able to participate and win, then we will lose a very important part of the soul of Stock Class racing. When I started, if I thought I had to build a late model muscle car to be able to compete and win, I would never have stepped into the arena. However, a good friend of mine partnered with me and we build a car for $2300 that won the first points race we participated in.

Great job, Michael Beard, on the runner up this last week-end!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Determination and desire are maybe more valuable than speed or dollars

Dwight, I've been in a couple of interesting discussions recently with old friends who happen to have "expensive" Stockers which could be pointing at a trend. Over breakfast with friend #1, he asks me how inexpensively I could build a lower classed Stocker for him because he's "afraid of breaking his E/F/G Stocker because it's too expensive to fix". I told him 5 grand if he could find a body, he's thinking about it but he'd like to sell his $$$ Stocker first. Friend #2 wants to know if he can borrow one of my cars so that he can race more often because his D/E/F Stocker requires lots of maintainance and he's afraid of taking an AHFS hit.
It seems to me ( in my own little world), I'm sorry to say, that the majority of people that are interested in lower classed Stockers are no longer looking for a competitive advantage or even a place to hide. They want something for nothing that they don't have to work on, spend money on or maintain but they can race the wheels off of.
I've always said that "I'll help anybody that will help themselves" and I'm proud to be able to say that I've helped a couple of young men get a start and do things in this sport that I'll never be able to do but they had the "drive and work ethic" to advance themselves beyond what I could teach them. I run into people all of the time who tell me how "great" they are and if only I could "give them a car" they could be killers.
Oh well, I guess to end I should just say Stockers can still be built for a minimum investment but a lot of work and if anyone would like my help,"I'll help anybody that will help themselves". BTW if you're a dreamer or a slacker, don't waste my time.
(Friends #1 and #2 let me know what you want to do, you're friends)

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Dwight, I've been in a couple of interesting discussions recently with old friends who happen to have "expensive" Stockers which could be pointing at a trend. Over breakfast with friend #1, he asks me how inexpensively I could build a lower classed Stocker for him because he's "afraid of breaking his E/F/G Stocker because it's too expensive to fix". I told him 5 grand if he could find a body, he's thinking about it but he'd like to sell his $$$ Stocker first. Friend #2 wants to know if he can borrow one of my cars so that he can race more often because his D/E/F Stocker requires lots of maintainance and he's afraid of taking an AHFS hit.
It seems to me ( in my own little world), I'm sorry to say, that the majority of people that are interested in lower classed Stockers are no longer looking for a competitive advantage or even a place to hide. They want something for nothing that they don't have to work on, spend money on or maintain but they can race the wheels off of.
I've always said that "I'll help anybody that will help themselves" and I'm proud to be able to say that I've helped a couple of young men get a start and do things in this sport that I'll never be able to do but they had the "drive and work ethic" to advance themselves beyond what I could teach them. I run into people all of the time who tell me how "great" they are and if only I could "give them a car" they could be killers.
Oh well, I guess to end I should just say Stockers can still be built for a minimum investment but a lot of work and if anyone would like my help,"I'll help anybody that will help themselves". BTW if you're a dreamer or a slacker, don't waste my time.
(Friends #1 and #2 let me know what you want to do, you're friends)

Another "nugget" from Billy! Well said my friend! Jim

.

[Dennis P Chapman]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Dwight, I've been in a couple of interesting discussions recently with old friends who happen to have "expensive" Stockers which could be pointing at a trend. Over breakfast with friend #1, he asks me how inexpensively I could build a lower classed Stocker for him because he's "afraid of breaking his E/F/G Stocker because it's too expensive to fix". I told him 5 grand if he could find a body, he's thinking about it but he'd like to sell his $$$ Stocker first. Friend #2 wants to know if he can borrow one of my cars so that he can race more often because his D/E/F Stocker requires lots of maintainance and he's afraid of taking an AHFS hit.
It seems to me ( in my own little world), I'm sorry to say, that the majority of people that are interested in lower classed Stockers are no longer looking for a competitive advantage or even a place to hide. They want something for nothing that they don't have to work on, spend money on or maintain but they can race the wheels off of.
I've always said that "I'll help anybody that will help themselves" and I'm proud to be able to say that I've helped a couple of young men get a start and do things in this sport that I'll never be able to do but they had the "drive and work ethic" to advance themselves beyond what I could teach them. I run into people all of the time who tell me how "great" they are and if only I could "give them a car" they could be killers.
Oh well, I guess to end I should just say Stockers can still be built for a minimum investment but a lot of work and if anyone would like my help,"I'll help anybody that will help themselves". BTW if you're a dreamer or a slacker, don't waste my time.
(Friends #1 and #2 let me know what you want to do, you're friends)

Very well said Billy still looking for the T/A.