Lack of integrity

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by art leong

You need to add
Acid ported heads and intakes
Superceded carbs

Dont forget Wheelie bars, heavy duty valve springs, stainless steel valves, shubeck type lifters, fuel cells, weight bars and boxes, aftermarket rear springs, roll bars (cages), non-street pump gas, 2 steps, aftermarket disc brakes, alum aftermarket heads, replacement intake manifolds, solid motor mounts, acid dipped fenders-hoods-doors, aftermarket lite wt. wheels, screw in rocker studs, trans that never came behind the combos being used, elec. radiator fans, lite wt. swinging assemblys, after market rods, smaller rod journals, damn Im tired of typing this.

[Bob Pagano]

Special runs must include a run of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available.

That is what it was changed to include ZL 1 cars and at that time they already knew the cj's were being built so its was dropped to 50 from 500 actual production cars. nhra did not even want a AA class at first, only after talk of new mustangs did they change their tune. If there had not been a AA class all the new cars would be in SS. Why is that so hard to understand, ford sealed the deal before the cars were done so they could also run Stock.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Most Stock eliminator cars never came with headers, MSD ignitions, cheater cams, reverse manual valve bodies, 8 inch converters, aftermarket shifters,traction bars, electric water pump drives, and aftermarket spools and axles from the factory but most racers all run these in stock eliminator nowadays. In case you hadn't noticed stock eliminator hasn't been stock for a long time and the new factory cars are just another addition to the list. There is no place in the paragraph about the inclusion of 50 special units the oems may produce that says anything about engines. Go and reread your rule book. It States "OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a run of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent. "

Attempting to compare 60 years worth of incremental changes to "Stockers" and these new ringer cars is like trying to compare a common cold to the Black Plague. The part I love best about the statement above is "Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent." You have to pay to play with these guys. Just because one OEM got in after paying admission, does not mean the next OEM will get in for free. Pay up sucker.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Everyone seems to be real quick to say "well, the AHFS will level everything out, eventually".

How long is eventually?

You do realize that now that the rules are wide open, and the OEM's do not have to even actually build anything, cars or engines, that they can now just release a new "engine", comprised of whatever they and the aftermarket have in the parts bin, and a new "car", every time one of their current paper cars is factored even close to reasonable? They only thing they have to worry about is how big a check written to NHRA it'll take to get the next one into the guide.

With the new open rules, they can produce new killers at will, they don't even have to put anything together, they just have to get a different pile of parts approved. So they can make their own killers obsolete any time they choose, and play the "one up" game until everyone in the class quits, out of frustration or lack of funds.

They've opened Pandora's Box right in the middle of sportsman drag racing, and most people seem to be too blind to see the endless possibilities of things they can do now. It's all cool, some think, because they're on the "up side" right now. Will it all still be so cool when you can't afford the next new $100K piece, and your near new car is worth less than 50% of what you have in it? Good luck with that.

The old adage "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" couldn't be more appropriate than it is here.

Alan, Good post, and something that hasn't been discussed in all the related posts.
If a "crate motor" combo gets beat up too bad, then all the manufacturer has to do is change a few specs, re-submit it as a new combo (with a lower rating,of course) and we're back where we started. They can now play out this game for YEARS.
That is, unless NHRA deals with it heads up, now.
They won't. The title says it all.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Bob Pagano

Special runs must include a run of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available.

That is what it was changed to include ZL 1 cars and at that time they already knew the cj's were being built so its was dropped to 50 from 500 actual production cars. nhra did not even want a AA class at first, only after talk of new mustangs did they change their tune. If there had not been a AA class all the new cars would be in SS. Why is that so hard to understand, ford sealed the deal before the cars were done so they could also run Stock.

Bob , the ZL-1 was back in the guide for 2-3 years before the new cars were brought in. In fact, the 50 cars built rule goes way back before that.

And still, most of the new cars are not "produced", you get a pile of parts you assemble to make a race car, most of them will not start or move under their own power. In no way do they compare to the ZL-1, the L-88, the Hemi cars, or even the Boss 429.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Most Stock eliminator cars never came with headers, MSD ignitions, cheater cams, reverse manual valve bodies, 8 inch converters, aftermarket shifters,traction bars, electric water pump drives, and aftermarket spools and axles from the factory but most racers all run these in stock eliminator nowadays. In case you hadn't noticed stock eliminator hasn't been stock for a long time and the new factory cars are just another addition to the list. There is no place in the paragraph about the inclusion of 50 special units the oems may produce that says anything about engines. Go and reread your rule book. It States "OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a run of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent. "

Yes, but until recently, say the last couple of years, the overwhelming vast majority of Stock Eliminator combinations started life as a running driving vehicle purchased as a complete motor vehicle from a dealer.

You are attempting to compare parts purchased in order to make a race car out of a production car to a pile of parts sold by an OEM that doesn't even start and run, much less move under its own power or pass any sort of DMV requirement. Keep stretching and reaching, you'll never get there, but the exercise might help.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Yes, but until recently, say the last couple of years, the overwhelming vast majority of Stock Eliminator combinations started life as a running driving vehicle purchased as a complete motor vehicle from a dealer.

You are attempting to compare parts purchased in order to make a race car out of a production car to a pile of parts sold by an OEM that doesn't even start and run, much less move under its own power or pass any sort of DMV requirement. Keep stretching and reaching, you'll never get there, but the exercise might help.

At least the CJ's are race ready when you receive them and they even include an owners manual/handbook.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/musta...ner_Guide4.pdf

[Alan Roehrich]

I didn't see any of the Windsor based engines in that user's guide. Not in the user's guide, or wrong year guide?

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I didn't see any of the Windsor based engines in that user's guide. Not in the user's guide, or wrong year guide?

Is shown in the engine maintenance section.

[dwydendorf]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Yes, but until recently, say the last couple of years, the overwhelming vast majority of Stock Eliminator combinations started life as a running driving vehicle purchased as a complete motor vehicle from a dealer.

You are attempting to compare parts purchased in order to make a race car out of a production car to a pile of parts sold by an OEM that doesn't even start and run, much less move under its own power or pass any sort of DMV requirement. Keep stretching and reaching, you'll never get there, but the exercise might help.

Wrong, the Cobra Jets were available from Ford Dealers as complete running cars. They did not come with a vin tag but show me in the rule book where it says that all cars racing stock eliminator must pass a DMV requirement. The Drag pak cars may be a different story but the Cobra Jets could be driven but were not street legal, which is not a requirement for stock eliminator. Ford produced 50 plus cars, were available thru Ford dealers , were drivable at the time of purchase. It is hard to beleive that nobody complained about the rule for the oem's to produce 50 special units, even though it has been in the rule book since at least 1998.