.370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? - Page 2

Rollins_2241 · 02-05-2009, 10:12 AM

Well, most of the time "if I can't say anything nice, I don't say anything at all". Let me just say there's a reason I'm posting here instead of just calling my division director about this. The answers to Gary's questions don't surprise me.

Bottom line, if I'm test/tuning on a .400 tree now I need to get to work for the Lucas races. If it turns out I'm set up OK for divisionals I still don't want to get the .030 surprise on my first time shot at the Gators. I think I might just call Jeff Foster and see what he knows about Div. 2 tracks.

Freddie · 02-05-2009, 11:17 AM

Being from Div 2 myself, I can tell you this much. Not all the Div 2 tracks use the exact same system and softwear. I know R.T's varry on a .400 tree from Bradenton to Orlando, and are still a little differant to Gainsville. As for the National event thing, I have not raced at a National for over 15 years so I cant answer that. But even at the Divisionals it may varry from track to track by a few thou.

I know Bradenton spent a ton of $$$ putting in a new system a year or two ago, and have all the kinks worked out of it now. Gainsville is using the identical system that NHRA takes to all the National events , being NHRA owned and all. not sure what system Orlando is using. and SGMP is also on the latest and gratest system so should be close to the same as Bradentons.

GaryGoFast · 02-05-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie

Being from Div 2 myself, I can tell you this much. Not all the Div 2 tracks use the exact same system and softwear. I know R.T's varry on a .400 tree from Bradenton to Orlando, and are still a little differant to Gainsville. As for the National event thing, I have not raced at a National for over 15 years so I cant answer that. But even at the Divisionals it may varry from track to track by a few thou.

I know Bradenton spent a ton of $$$ putting in a new system a year or two ago, and have all the kinks worked out of it now. Gainsville is using the identical system that NHRA takes to all the National events , being NHRA owned and all. not sure what system Orlando is using. and SGMP is also on the latest and gratest system so should be close to the same as Bradentons.

Just to let you know that in D1 , obviously they use the same system at all races but if you use the same delay at say Atco & then go to Cecil County for a D1 race, you'll have to unload your box due to the long rollout at cecil, nothing dif with the timing system just the track dictates less delay. All things are not equal or as they appear.

Dave Steltz · 02-05-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryGoFast

Just to let you know that in D1 , obviously they use the same system at all races but if you use the same delay at say Atco & then go to Cecil County for a D1 race, you'll have to unload your box due to the long rollout at cecil, nothing dif with the timing system just the track dictates less delay. All things are not equal or as they appear.

Def agree with Gary..I dont think tracks vary too much on the software, but the rollout, the exact position of the tree itself and the sun, track conditions, all that factors into reaction time...I know for myself I'm quick at Atco and Cecil, horrible at Maple Grove, average at Island and Leb Valley...I went to Hagerstown last year and was quick...
So I think its more than one thing, its a combo...

SSTHottie1236 · 02-05-2009, 01:53 PM

It's when the rollout or beam set up changes day to day at the same race is when there's an issue. I try not to compare other weekends even at the same track and just try to stay consistent in a weekend.

Kelli
1236 S/ST
1836 S/G

GRIGGS · 02-05-2009, 08:31 PM

Gary is right, he told me the same story. Bill Holt just looked at him like he had a chicken on his shoulder. Atlanta nat's I carry .035 to .040, go to div and carry .065 to .070. Good luck.
Griggs

John DiBartolomeo · 02-05-2009, 11:52 PM

As far as I've been told (and we did a story on this in the March '09 issue of Drag Racing Action - http://www.dragracingaction.com), all the divisions have now gone to what is termed as a .370 tree. Although as Compulink puts it, they consider it more of a "compensation" than a .370 tree. Either way you skin it though, the fact is that S/ST is in a .470, while Gas and Comp is .370. It was up to each division to make the choice and I know that D1 only changed to the .370 a couple of years ago, while everyone else was already using it. The change came about in '03 after the first couple of national events where the PSM and PS cars were redlighting on the then standard .400 tree. Most tracks also have standardized their rollout but it woill vary from track to track. However, changing the rollout by 1/2" or so (which can happen from track to track) might change the amount of delay but not by .030.

C and W Racing · 02-06-2009, 10:44 AM

The biggest difference that I have seen from the Nationals and Divisionals is the color of the bulbs that they use. The ones that the Nationals use have an orange tint where most Divisionals use yellow bulbs. I have found that I don't react as well to the bulbs with the orange tint. There are some divisional tracks that also use the orange bulbs, which is part of the reason in the inconsistencys at different tracks
Chuck

Rollins_2241 · 02-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the information. Of course I won't really know what to do until I start reading time slips - but one should always plan ahead regarding trans., electronics, and weight changes. I'll see many of you at the races.

02-05-2009, 10:12 AM	#11
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? Well, most of the time "if I can't say anything nice, I don't say anything at all". Let me just say there's a reason I'm posting here instead of just calling my division director about this. The answers to Gary's questions don't surprise me. Bottom line, if I'm test/tuning on a .400 tree now I need to get to work for the Lucas races. If it turns out I'm set up OK for divisionals I still don't want to get the .030 surprise on my first time shot at the Gators. I think I might just call Jeff Foster and see what he knows about Div. 2 tracks.

02-05-2009, 11:17 AM	#12
Freddie Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampa Fla / Anderson SC Posts: 334 Likes: 12 Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? Being from Div 2 myself, I can tell you this much. Not all the Div 2 tracks use the exact same system and softwear. I know R.T's varry on a .400 tree from Bradenton to Orlando, and are still a little differant to Gainsville. As for the National event thing, I have not raced at a National for over 15 years so I cant answer that. But even at the Divisionals it may varry from track to track by a few thou. I know Bradenton spent a ton of $$$ putting in a new system a year or two ago, and have all the kinks worked out of it now. Gainsville is using the identical system that NHRA takes to all the National events , being NHRA owned and all. not sure what system Orlando is using. and SGMP is also on the latest and gratest system so should be close to the same as Bradentons. __________________ NHRA: Comp 2200 - S/C 2201 NMRA 2012 Outlaw 10.5 #10

02-05-2009, 01:53 PM	#15
SSTHottie1236 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bath, PA Posts: 136 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? It's when the rollout or beam set up changes day to day at the same race is when there's an issue. I try not to compare other weekends even at the same track and just try to stay consistent in a weekend. Kelli 1236 S/ST 1836 S/G __________________ Kelli 1236 S/ST 1836 S/G

02-05-2009, 08:31 PM	#16
GRIGGS Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 92 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? Gary is right, he told me the same story. Bill Holt just looked at him like he had a chicken on his shoulder. Atlanta nat's I carry .035 to .040, go to div and carry .065 to .070. Good luck. Griggs

02-05-2009, 11:52 PM	#17
John DiBartolomeo Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Beaver Springs, PA Posts: 494 Likes: 1 Liked 1,282 Times in 159 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? As far as I've been told (and we did a story on this in the March '09 issue of Drag Racing Action - http://www.dragracingaction.com), all the divisions have now gone to what is termed as a .370 tree. Although as Compulink puts it, they consider it more of a "compensation" than a .370 tree. Either way you skin it though, the fact is that S/ST is in a .470, while Gas and Comp is .370. It was up to each division to make the choice and I know that D1 only changed to the .370 a couple of years ago, while everyone else was already using it. The change came about in '03 after the first couple of national events where the PSM and PS cars were redlighting on the then standard .400 tree. Most tracks also have standardized their rollout but it woill vary from track to track. However, changing the rollout by 1/2" or so (which can happen from track to track) might change the amount of delay but not by .030. __________________ John DiBartolomeo DRC Race Products DragRacingActionOnline.com

02-06-2009, 10:44 AM	#18
C and W Racing Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 557 Likes: 6 Liked 13 Times in 3 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? The biggest difference that I have seen from the Nationals and Divisionals is the color of the bulbs that they use. The ones that the Nationals use have an orange tint where most Divisionals use yellow bulbs. I have found that I don't react as well to the bulbs with the orange tint. There are some divisional tracks that also use the orange bulbs, which is part of the reason in the inconsistencys at different tracks Chuck

02-06-2009, 11:38 AM	#19
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: .370 vs. .400 tree - nationals vs. division 2? Thanks everyone, I appreciate the information. Of course I won't really know what to do until I start reading time slips - but one should always plan ahead regarding trans., electronics, and weight changes. I'll see many of you at the races.