Sponsorship Advice

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

In the last 20 Vintage GP, I wanted to move into current GP , but Im 6'1 and 220 when trim , so on a 250, Im kinda like a monkey f'ing a football anyway.

My last was an OSSA GP250 replica, I heard its for sale out there again, but I wanted to build a Honday 6 cylinder 250 next, It just itll take me 2 years to cast the motor parts and put it together.

Before that was flat track for a while, and before that MX (and prior Junior MX)

But as my bikes all aged, they became vintage, so like the OSSA I tried to move them up/out....the OSSA motor I had from the FT days.

Originally Posted by AC

what type of bikes did you run?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

[QUOTE=Hagen Gary;163907]

Enough of this post whoreing. I've been visiting this forum and at this class racing thing 20 times longer than you (and I'm one of the younger ones)but don't know ***** about class racing. My advice, Keep your mouth shut (that includes your keyboard) and find someone who knows what they are doing and can stand you, then learn from them.

Its not about post whoring, it was a simple question, HOW and WHAT is the best way to deal with the ink for #2 knowing they want the car to themselves NOW ? But I cant do that, soooo.....

Trying to leverage the POTENTIAL is what I was looking for as well as "Term" of Agreement which we dont have .

Ill agree 100% I dont know **** about class racing, BUT , I kept my mouth shut for a while and didnt see anyone else asking the SPECIFIC Questions, Trans Cooler, and a ton of other items I have ASKED, I GET the answers I am looking for , its a pain for me to weed through the Chaff thrown here as well, I would preffer to have only answers posted and not have the threads take the directions they do, it makes it difficult to find the sincere answers. But many have taken to PMing them to me which I appreciate.

I have made more solid contact here IN THE CLASS RACING COMMUNITY, than I ever could have elsewhere....simple. So explain to me why I should stop doing something that is working for me simply because you would rather I dont ?!?!

I will take any good honest advice you have to offer, but Im not much one for "The Establishment" of anything, 9 times out of 10 they are there still trying to succeed and if someone comes along who thinks they can, they will be the first to tell you it cant be done the way that I am trying, Ive found that "It cant be done" only means the other party Dosent know how to do it themselves.

Am I supposed to bow in reverence because you have ". I've been visiting this forum and at this class racing thing 20 times longer than you " But then post the following ?

Maybee you don't realize it, but asking about how to manage your second major sponser, or how you can build a car that will run 4 seconds under the index, or how you plan on making money on building a class car really strikes a nerve with people (like me) who have an extensive winning record, Thousands of unrecovered dollars in, with no real sponser in site,

Ok.....well it may strike a nerve but a)it isnt my fault b)Im not your business manager and c)Im not going to stay quiet on something just because someone else is not capable. Think outside the box, look outside racing, or drag racing for people who are looking to tap that market. I found 2 with 3 phone calls.....Total time on phone 4 hours.

The economy sucks people are looking for untapped markets for products they already have tons of R&D in and are perfect fits for a different market...find em....If you want I will help and send you in some directions of things we decided not to purse because they werent a good fit for us, but they maybe for you.

Just because you have a brand new bogus car, and a "Former World Champ" driving it, doesn't mean you will turn that little light on right past the finish line. In fact, with the crap that flies from your mouth, and dealing with a new car,

Well its simple its about elimnating varaibles, I cant drive well enough to compete at a National level, yet, and I dont know I will ever be , I doubt I will. What I do KNOW is He IS capable, not that hes a lock but rather he is CAPABLE of doing something I have not done....simple problem solved. He is also aware of what it TAKE to win, and we will deffer to his knowledge period, I am setting the car up not for how I think it should be , but how HE thinks it should be and havent second guessed 1 item....He know , we dont.

I'd be willing to bet your team's round win-loss record is heavy on the loss side.

Hell, Ill GUARENTEE it will be , where did I ever day it wouldnt be ? I expect that. Its all about managing expectations, if we win 2 events this year at a National level I would be amazed and thrilled. I know how hard it is and dont have any expectation it isnt......? What was the point here.

You arn't going to keep many sponsers like that, and you've allready alienated at least half of the people on this board from even wanting to talk to you in person (other than just to see if your as egotistical and ignorant as the character you play on this board).

Well maybe publically thats true but for every negative post I get thrown in my direction I get about 4 or 5 PM's giving me the answers that I seek as well as them telling me how much they cant stand some of the people that are throwing crap in my direction (you are not one of them) so......I guess I see the stats from a different perspective. Everyday I have to empty my box which is becoming a pain because its all good info, and I dont want to loose track of the senders.
That aint going to sell that product either.

This **** is gonna sell itself PERIOD....Noone on the Drag side has seen anything like it. Simple....Its NHRA approved as of Oct 09 and well, an ECU that costs half as much as the Competing units for EFI cars and does twice as much its a leap above systems like the BS3 and Fast hands down, the old version did more than those and the new system is just coming of the assy line...........and has an extensive , extensive road racing, SCCA, and other records including land speed, and bikes...yes bikes.....but not 1 drag racer is running ? Yeah this is gonna sell itself, all that needs to happen is for it te be RUN and KNOWN...the rest will take care of itself, 3 other DP teams already are planning on the system because of our simply telling them about the system, they did their own research and made the decisions.

Besides they know me.... Thats why they made it happen.
So any "this that or the other" well they KNOW me personally and were good friends, theres little in that way ANYTHIN I can say or do that they a)dont expect and b)arent prepared for.

BTW, The only people who care about your bike stories are the ones who run bikes down the strip, and they don't post here

On that youre probably right, but its the only in life racing experience I have across the business side as well as the wrenching and running myself, there are many paralele you dont see. But in as much as that goes I use it as "Point of Refrence" in my posts since its the only I have.

So at least I will stop posting about my prior expereince in Motorcycles, I hope thats satisfactory Its all I can offer, and if its insufficient I apologize in advance.

[Hagen Gary]

I don't even know why I'm doing this but here goes,

Sportsman racing is not Pro Stock. Things work a little different here. People buy products from sponsors who fund cars that win and do it with class, Not allready well funded cars that have zero clue what they are doing pushing products on people. I can't ever rememeber Dan Fletcher saying, make sure you buy Vavloine and K&N and do it through Summit. We buy his prducts because he is a class act and is just plain good at driving. Whenever a sponsor drops him so that they can fund thier pro stock team, we drop them and buy from their competitor. I use Dan as an example, but their are many people we do the same thing for.

Your driver clearly doesn't know crap about sportsman racing either or you would have all these silly little questions answered for you allready. If that is the case then I would say that you could learn to drive just as good as him in the same amount of time. But then you wouldn't have all these sponsors throwing themselves at a name on the side of the car, so I would stick with your plan. I would also lock in that sponsor for as long as you possibly could, but what do I know, I'm to stupid to spend 4 hours on the phone looking for one. I'm also not a former pro stock world champ, so for me to get a sponsor requires winning.

I never said nor ment to imply that you should bow down to me because I've been doing this longer than you. It was a statement to prove a point that YOU POST WAY TO MUCH. I just clicked that little search button on the top of the page and pluged in Trans Cooler.. What do you know. 6 Threads totally devoted to what cooler is recomended for what application. Why revive one of those threads when you can wright a paragraph asking the same question... right?

Maybee its because I'm a stupid uneducated cajun boy, but where I come from, you don't ask people with a wealth of knowledge to just give you info without feeling as though you have earned it in some way. That seems to be a problem with people my age more than just you, so I guess I can't blame you for that. I also don't know why people would just give you hard earned info that will help you compete against them other than the fact that the majority of sportsman racers are just plain nice. Or it could be their bleeding harts feeling sorry for you. I think you will have a little bit of a harder time getting those PM's about how to cut a light and drive the stripe.

Once again, I would find someone who knows what they are doing, earn thier trust, and learn all you can from them. I am forever in debt to the people who taught me what I know, and thats what this CLASS racing is all about. Not bringing in a brand new car with a major sponsor and asking everyone in an open forum to tell you how to race it. I guess we think a little different though?

BTW, the only people who will be buying your ecu program are people building new cars, unless it will make it more easy to predict a dial, or picks up a few hundreds of et. If you have ever been to a race you will see that their are not as many new cars or FI cars as you may think. So make sure you lock that sponsor in.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

W e l l I a m t y p i n g t h i s r e a l l y s l o w s o y o u c a n u n d e r s t a n d i t a n d n o t c l a i m i t s a y s s o m e t h i n g i t d o s e n t o r l a t e r i n t e n t i o n a l l y m i s q u o t e i t t o s u i t y o u r o w n e n d s

Well the 76 wagon comment wasnt directed at you, didn know you had one......I tried to think of a Dodge Aspen Wagon Circa 1976 that was a car that didnt get made as not to offend....but since I wasnt sure they didnt make something of the like, I figured that would offend the least people out there.....But I struck the Aspen or Volare part since, I wasnt sure.

But leave it to you to think it was directed at you. Looks like youll put yourself in the line of "fire" as it were no matter what it takes in regards to anything I post.

Ive already said Im a **** driver, what EXACTLY are we betting on ? Who wins and dosent red ?, that dosent seem fair for your side, who has the best RT ? Who dosent break out, or in a staggered to see who breaks first ? who drops out of the elims first, WHAT EXACTLY is the Bet ? I need to know exactly what I am betting on.

"How about one more wager that you will never show up to HONOR? My kid will bracket race you in his no name 76 Dodge against you personally in your Big Buck Hero car and loser donates $1,000. to American Red Cross..." Is clear in some points and Im guessing coming from you intentionally misleading and vauge.

Well have to hammer out exactly what we are betting on, and where, Gainesville may be better timing wise. Im have no doubt we can work something out, Im flexible.

The stakes are good, and the cause good, Im game $1000 seems fair to me, Just have a $1000 Bank Check on hand and an envelope, that way the winner can take the check and mail it themselves , make it out to American Red Cross. The winner can then decide what to do with the check they still hold, either donate it as well or get it cancelled at the bank (I think they charge $25 here to do that on a cashiers check) I have the 1000 sitting on my desk and will go get a bank check today if we come to agreeable terms.

In as much as my "Honor" goes thats something you

a)Have no idea of , I keep commitments I make even at my own expense and if they negativley affect me, because my word is as solid as it gets and the only thing I can call my own beyond infuence or control

b)From you prior intentionally misleading posts is clear something you dont have to worry about yourself.

I damm near forgot, the first pic was taken just for you.....I had to be reminded, the second is to clear any questions you may have on the ability to backup the bet that you "Claim" will never be honored. We couldnt figure out if after that last post on the above thread if you went on vacation, were spending time with the family, went to jail, went on a drinking binge, didnt much matter we just hadnt seen any posts from you worthy of the pic....so here it is.......a joint effort I assure you.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/...642b326734.jpg
and
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/...83413ab33d.jpg

But John, why think small ? I mean if this is just your way of puffing up YOUR chest and this that and the other, I would suggest you think BIGGER, You left TOO many chips on the table for me not to pick up.

How about this for size, we let ANYONE Join in this "Bracket" event, everyone puts in the $1000 ALL to be donated to the American Red Cross, WINNER Picks the Directed Donation fun it goes to in the Red Cross. If I want it as the winner to go for the "Haitian Earthquake Fund" thats good, if you win and want it to go to the "Stop Sexual Cruelty Charges for Livestock" then it goes there, WHOEVER the Winner is they get THEIR choice instead of seeing the money just hit the General Fund, BUT it goes THROUGH the Red Cross.The winners Returned their $1000 entry and can do with it as they wish. The remaining sum in donated IN ITS ENTIRETY to the ARC. If we even get 1 or 2 other entrants it will make for more money for a worth cause, and if everyone is so certain of a win, then they will get their funds back to do with as they wish, but at the same time they will be the person that gets to direct the funds for the usage of the ARC as they see fit....

I even know a track in Texas that would probabbly be willing to host the event and get it some press. Should help bring more people to the event and racers. Ive got a call into them now, the owner wont be in till later or tommorow.

Unless, and just because the only thing you thought of was a way to pick it up and make it all about you, and your "Triumph" so you could really puff your chest a little bigger for you and the people you think look up to you.......and really didnt care for the charity aspect, but this approach should correct any issues with that.

Think BIGGER John....thinking small "is so last year" ..... keep up if you can.

Im even willing if we can find an agreeable and trustworth party to have them hold the funds NOW so any bull**** you may want to sling about me not "Honoring" my commitments looses the stink you seem to try to put on everything.

Put your money where your mouth is is the quote I seem to hear here a lot. Ill do it today....if we can agree on a venune and form for the "event"

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN

Thank you very much for the kind words about my kids 76 Dodge Wagon! By the way at 19 years old he won one Divisional Races and Runner Up another one in 2009.! He also finished in the top 4 in Division 7 in a $5,000 dollar car built and raced on his bracket winnings! Not many of us can afford a $100,000. race car but that does not mean we can't race and win. Any monkey can go out and buy an expensive race car and hire a driver, but what sort of satisfaction does that give anybody? Build it, Drive it, Win with it yourself and then maybe you will get the respect you seem to think you merit!!How about one more wager that you will never show up to HONOR? My kid will bracket race you in his no name 76 Dodge against you personally in your Big Buck Hero car and loser donates $1,000. to American Red Cross...We could probably do that in a time trial at Pomona or Phoenix. Like the old country song says: A Little less talk........and a Lot more action.

[Hagen Gary]

Allthough I don't agree with a public questioning of someones honor or word, I have to tell you Drooze. Thats what you get when you shoot your mouth off so much. I think all of us know you didn't mean to say that his son couldn't get a sponsor, but thats what you did say. It applied directly to him and his son's car. Just like you saying you can build a car that runs a few seconds under the index for $15,000 or whatever it was, when people have been trying for years and spent 5 times that just to run 1 second under. Or saying that you don't know how to deal with all these sponsors throwing themselves at you, when some people are just looking to get thier entries and fuel bill paid for. The more you talk the more you offend people. So Once again, Pick one or a couple of those people who have been PMing you and follow what they say. Race a year or two and earn the right to shoot your mouth off. Just buying a new car and knowing a formor world champ doesn't mean youve earned anything.

Did you read that slow enough to understand?

[Dragsinger]

"but I wanted to build a Honday 6 cylinder 250 next, It just itll take me 2 years to cast the motor parts and put it together."

{smile}

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Good points and I will take some of them to heart, I look at things different......its that simple, I EXPECT Nothing from someone, anything is a bonus.

Your driver clearly doesn't know crap about sportsman racing either or you would have all these silly little questions answered for you allready. If that is the case then I would say that you could learn to drive just as good as him in the same amount of time. But then you wouldn't have all these sponsors throwing themselves at a name on the side of the car, so I would stick with your plan. I would also lock in that sponsor for as long as you possibly could, but what do I know, I'm to stupid to spend 4 hours on the phone looking for one. I'm also not a former pro stock world champ, so for me to get a sponsor requires winning.

He does and we have chosen to take some of his advice, his job is on the track, MINE is in the office and shop. He is not of a personality type where he would throw things at us and expect us to do them, he knows what his strenths are and chooses to focus on those. He has good points, but in all honesty I can say he hasnt dealt with sponsors of these type before, they are from a different "arena" as it were and while "english" may be their primary language in the case of 1 , words like "wonky" arent in his vocabluary, I have dealt with people my whole life from that country and culture. BUT on this I am flying blind as its not a situation Ive been faced with before.....No problem is unique or only in my court, someone else has had this issue before and found what either works or dosent work and may or may not be willing to share it, thats what I was looking for.

YOU POST WAY TO MUCH. I just clicked that little search button on the top of the page and pluged in Trans Cooler.. What do you know. 6 Threads totally devoted to what cooler is recomended for what application. Why revive one of those threads when you can wright a paragraph asking the same question... right?

Probably that wont change, I come from a life spent communicating via computer in programming, fourms have been the #1 way to share that knowledge for some 10 years, Im used to it....and its effective.

So I can honestly say no matter how much people tell me to shut up as long as my questions are answered and goals are met , It will to your chagrin continue.

I also hadnt made a decision and wanted to hear pros and cons on the cooler, as well as a lot of PM's I made my decision, its actually a hybrid decision, because of dyno tuning and other I have mounted one above the trans crossmember, short lines, full flow. I can if need be and after dyno testing eliminate it should I choose to without worrying about associated plumbing, I would NOT have found the answer I was looking for without the guidance I was looking for here. The extra capacity even though its only a quart will be adequate to keep it a few degrees cooler for a few seconds more, and it as cheap, simple and what I see as a good solution, that may change but for now this is it.

I wouldnt have come to this solution without the knowledge and pros an cons of the approaches listed.




you don't ask people with a wealth of knowledge to just give you info without feeling as though you have earned it in some way. That seems to be a problem with people my age more than just you, so I guess I can't blame you for that. I also don't know why people would just give you hard earned info that will help you compete against them other than the fact that the majority of sportsman racers are just plain nice.

Ill agree with all of that, I dont know why they do either, but its appreciated, sincerly appreciated. AND Its 2 ways, although many choose to message direct, I am an OPEN BOOK on everything except cam and other engine internals that will make us competitive against other DP cars, I will still however share my OPINIONS if asked and point someone in that direction IF it has proved effective, I just wont give em my grind......they are the only direct competition in terms of speed in A I see, AA whole different landscape, the rest is all driver and theyve got as good or better shot than that of beating us by driving, so I dont see the competition direction.

I have as many here could if they cared to shared anything and everything related to DP cars that can assist them or their decision, and eventually they me....I gave first and NEVER expected anything in return, I post a daily blog as a way for them to keep abreast of things weve found and encoutered, here isnt the place as its too DP specific.The kindness was done to me on this forum by Mr M as I call him as hes a private individual and DP owner, He knows his **** and shares it freely, he is now far from the only one.

I have been lambasted by other DP Owners, a few for giving out TOO Much info ? Not mind you info they gave me, but rather things I learned on my OWN with these cars.....Well it may negativley affect them but for us and those in our "Drag Pak Confederation" it has been helpful, for the rest there is little yet I can give sound advice on that has been tested, some things like rotational mass against centerlines of motion I can, those were hard earned and are freely shared.

Once again, I would find someone who knows what they are doing, earn thier trust, and learn all you can from them. I am forever in debt to the people who taught me what I know, and thats what this CLASS racing is all about. Not bringing in a brand new car with a major sponsor and asking everyone in an open forum to tell you how to race it. I guess we think a little different though?

Im not asking them to tell us how to race it, in some cases when Im doing computer work its easier to ask here than pick up the phone to some of the same people I would be calling anyway. They are here, and post here, and PM here....so their schedules allow that as does mine.

But I appreecate all honest suggestions and digest them all.....just because I dont choose one dosent mean it wasnt instrumental in making my decision.

I choose to look and take all perspectives serious analyzye the results and origin of the decision see why they made them and tailor them to fit our needs. Its the process of learning.

BTW, the only people who will be buying your ecu program are people building new cars, unless it will make it more easy to predict a dial, or picks up a few hundreds of et. If you have ever been to a race you will see that their are not as many new cars or FI cars as you may think. So make sure you lock that sponsor in.

That is also 100% correct and insightful, the only ones who will later "change" to it are people who see it work well in competition, and as well as you pointed out newer FI cars, and Detroit isnt making anything BUT now.....hence the company thats sponosring us is hitting an untapped market in a growing area with the only real competition coming from Motec, BS3, FAST and DFI, lesser from people with other systems....good marketing on their part and something they asked to be able to participate in. I was more than willing to oblige, but did so a bit haphazzardly without thinking of long term issues.

And yes certianly we HOPE it will be capable of allowing a couple
hundreths, its resolution and processing speed are faster than anything out there, that lead to more accurate Maps and tables and response.

BUT Its one thing to say it another to SHOW it, and for that reason its kept "In the Hat" until after our Dyno and Track testing, itll be pretty hard to hide after that with their name emblazoned all over the car.

Thanks for your advice, and contrary to your thought it did not fall on "deaf ears" but for reasons you havent seen first hand and from our own expereinces here it is a logical approach for us to seek the assistance here and that will continue, just because I dont agree with it all dosent mean I didnt listen (that would be my X wifes MO)

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Yeah the RC166 makes me smile too...Sorry Honday is a term we use as a joke of the Modern take off stuff as most of the newer parts are made in Korea.....you might not be part of that crowd, sorry to confuse.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING like the sound of one taching 14k past you....my buddy helped with the build on another one of the RC166 replicas but Regers is the nicest and most correct, http://www.cbxclub.com/reger.html
Duane still has the cores used for sandcasting (the original was as well) but dosent have the crank billets anymore , the cores are mine for the asking, But and honest 1 day a week itd take 2 years to build I figure.

In contrast my OSSA Monocoque took a month to build but I had the forks, and engine.....so....it was still equally odd.

Oppppssss....sorry no bike talk.......

Originally Posted by Dragsinger

"but I wanted to build a Honday 6 cylinder 250 next, It just itll take me 2 years to cast the motor parts and put it together."

{smile}

[Ed Fernandez]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/...642b326734.jpg

Judging by the picture,the apple hasn't fallen too far from the tree.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Link didnt come out.....and I cant find which pic youre reffering to....

Repost if you can...

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/...642b326734.jpg

Judging by the picture,the apple hasn't fallen too far from the tree.