The new Dodge Dart ? not what BS

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I never said we shouldn't update the guide.

I'm all for U.S. production cars being added as they are produced.

But you will not bring anyone to Stock Eliminator and Super Stock by adding Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, Nissan, Lexus, or Infinity. Those manufacturers couldn't care less about Stock Eliminator and Super Stock, and the guys who do race those cars don't give a damn about class racing either.

And I didn't say that we should put Toyota, Honda, etc. in the guide (not in this post anyway). All I said was it would be nice if FFFord, Chrysler and GM put the turbocharged small cars that they build and sell in the guide.
As far as racing one? I would do one but not out of my own pocket. I'm sure that the shops(or engineers) that came up with the the ringers that are in the guide got paid well to sort them out and I would expect nothing less.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I'm all for U.S. production cars being added as they are produced.

As far as that goes and I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong, the last that I knew, Mustangs were being built in Mexico, Camaros were being assembled in Canada and designed in Australia, and Challengers are for all intents and purposes the last generation C-class Mercedes.

[Ron Ortiz]

There is a classification guide with thousands of combinations to choose from. There are no imports. So, if I was a young person who drives a Honda, and want to run in Stock, I can't. But, I can choose an American production car before 1960. You are right, they do not care, so we turn them away. You underestimate todays young people. If they could run Stock, they would, but as you say there are rules, and they do not like those. Two edged sword. Sure, they are interested in bolt on parts, but so were you in the beginning, then you eventually progressed to Stock. The only thing I know is that Stock is getting less and less participants. No new blood except for generation racers, who also run in the Super categories, which is taboo to Stock racers, throttle stops and such. What is the big deal about an import manufacturer in Stock. It is not going to hurt anything. If the viewpoint is to not let imports in because we won't see any due to the rules, then it is the same for US production cars in the eyes of a young person. We still need to preserve the current Stock racers, but there comes a time for change, just as the Cobra Jets, Drag Paks and COPO's have changed the landscape.

The NHRA Import thing was a joke, only high money spending categories. No Stock Eliminator.

The best "recruiting" tool is a satisfied happy participant. If we were a satisfied happy customer, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I agree with you, and if it were to be true, then young people would be interested in coming over.

We are not selling tofu vs hamburgers, we are getting customers to the table, if they do not like the food then they won't come back. No reason to take burgers off the menu, but NHRA is running the restaurant.

Imports won't hurt us. There will always be bitchin about combinations. If we really wanted Stock to be successful, they would fix the AHFS, but you know about that situation.

Is there really an answer. Oh, I forgot, they are lowering the quotas, that's the solution

Ron Ortiz
U/SA Stock forever.

[art leong]

Not everyone wants a cookie cutter. "who can bend the parameters better" car.
There is not much "stock" on a stock eliminator car anymore.
A lot of the younger guys call that "cheating" to them stock is factory stock..
You can put $5000 into a "stock" pair of heads. Or you can bolt on a turbo or a nitrous kit for a lot less money and pick up a lot more.
I have always raced a "different" style car less keeping up with the Jones'.
When we built the hemi cars in the mid 70's we were told they could never win due to traction problems, weight distribution etc.
Stock eliminator was populated mostly by F and lower cars.
In stock (from the factory) trim a 340 Duster or Dart was almost as quick as a street hemi car.

[Bruce Noland]

A few years ago, I went to a test session at MIR on a Saturday afternoon. The place was full of street folks and bracket cars. A few of the bracket guys came over. They had noticed the white vinyal letters on my windshield and wanted to check out my car. They were nice guys and very interested in the car, at first. They wanted to know if LISA was my girlfriend? I had to regroup for a second and then explained to them that LISA was actually L/SA. I gave them a quick run down on Stock Eliminator and it's restrictive nature. They said they liked bolt on power because it is cheaper and something they can do in their driveway. To most of them the hair splitting, anal rules of Stock seemed like a real drag. To each his/her own.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

And I didn't say that we should put Toyota, Honda, etc. in the guide (not in this post anyway). All I said was it would be nice if FFFord, Chrysler and GM put the turbocharged small cars that they build and sell in the guide.
As far as racing one? I would do one but not out of my own pocket. I'm sure that the shops(or engineers) that came up with the the ringers that are in the guide got paid well to sort them out and I would expect nothing less.

Billy, you skipped the part of that post where I agreed with you:

By the way, it has already been stated, by people who would know, that at the very least, it is Ford that is keeping their production street cars out of the guide. It is probably true of the others as well. I'm all for putting all their production cars in the guide.

Here is the problem with foreign makes in the guide: Return on investment.

Putting those cars in the guide adds a huge amount of complexity. First, you have to develop a relationship with each OEM. Then you have to get them to give you their specs. Then you have to get them in the guide. Then you have to get them to the tech guys in the field, and get the tech guys prepared to deal with them. You're asking NHRA to spend a considerable amount of time and money. It would require them to hire more staff.

In return for that, they'll get about 0.05% increase in membership and car count. At best.

In effect, you're asking NHRA to spend at least $250K, and those foreign OEM's are not going to pony up a thin dime for NHRA.

It'll never happen.

And that is one of those rare instances where I agree with NHRA. It is not a wise investment.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by alan roehrich

billy, you skipped the part of that post where i agreed with you:
Here is the problem with foreign makes in the guide: return on investment.

putting those cars in the guide adds a huge amount of complexity. First, you have to develop a relationship with each oem. Then you have to get them to give you their specs. Then you have to get them in the guide. Then you have to get them to the tech guys in the field, and get the tech guys prepared to deal with them. You're asking nhra to spend a considerable amount of time and money. It would require them to hire more staff.

In return for that, they'll get about 0.05% increase in membership and car count. At best.

In effect, you're asking nhra to spend at least $250k, and those foreign oem's are not going to pony up a thin dime for nhra.

It'll never happen.

And that is one of those rare instances where i agree with nhra. It is not a wise investment.

x2

[Jim Wahl]

Alan has pretty much nailed it on this subject! No more to add really. Bruce, I have had the same thing happen to me many times. After explaining the basic rules to them they all say the same thing.......why? Most of us have been racing S&SS so long we never think about the rules the way a new guy does. We look at racing differently. That's just the way we do it! The younger crowd and bracket racers think we are crazy........... I do to! Jim

I thought there was a rompin' stompin' 184hp motor available in the new Dart?



.

[Ron Ortiz]

Alan stated,
Putting those cars in the guide adds a huge amount of complexity. First, you have to develop a relationship with each OEM. Then you have to get them to give you their specs. Then you have to get them in the guide. Then you have to get them to the tech guys in the field, and get the tech guys prepared to deal with them. You're asking NHRA to spend a considerable amount of time and money. It would require them to hire more staff.

In return for that, they'll get about 0.05% increase in membership and car count. At best.

In effect, you're asking NHRA to spend at least $250K, and those foreign OEM's are not going to pony up a thin dime for NHRA.

Answer: Toyota is already putting up it's dime, just in the Pro classes, could change for sportsman if opportunity exists. They are in the business to make money, and NHRA would oblige them if it was in their interest also. You never know.

As far as the rest of your quote, pretty much dead on. And since that is the case do you really think that they are going to keep Stock around for the same reasons as you quoted.

T/D & T/S is taking over. Some time down the road we will be running "Sportsnationals" as a premier event, no more regular Nats.

If they really want to preserve us why are they lowering the quotas.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA I don't feel good

[Ed Wright]

Jim, rompin stompin and 184 HP in the same sentence?
Kinda like military intelligence, isn't it? LOL