Grossi and the Big Block

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

SPS, There is a large group who support the "underfactor deal" They feel the picking of a combo that has been overlooked or inadequately factored is special part of S and SS.

So what is wrong with picking up an underfactored engine? Don't blame it on the racer; blame it on the lack of oversight by NHRA. If they paid close attention to the weight of the car at the scales and compared it to the weight it is supposed to carry for the class and also the MPH, they could figure out how fast the combo can run and figure out it is under factored.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Meanwhile a few who HAVE a race car and are financially committed to one combination get HP whenever one of the upper group hit the index deal of AHFS. The only way it will stop is 1) limit the engine combinations to those currently factored and upgrade the AFHS to Really hit the odd combinations( Wont happen)

Why limit the engine combinations if the particular engine was available from the factory? Again, you are trying to bring your idea of the Top Super Stock that you have been trying to push so hard many times?

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

2) make people submit new combo to NHRA TECH for upgraded factor BEFORE the Monster shows up.

How can you factor an engine when it has not even hit the track? Do you or NHRA have a crystal ball to figure out the HP of a combination before it hits the track?

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Problem is now days if people can change to keep up after 10 or so are built THEN NHRA seems amazed and starts to factor them even if too slowly.

Again, NHRA's lack of oversight.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Some people make a life style of running a "weak" factor motor, winning selling it and moving on to the next weak factor. They are heros in the sense they excell at this part of the rules. Could they be the fastest, quickest, best if 10 were built in their class. Answer is doubtful they are just so first with the combo they are great at the game....they play.

Like I stated prior, what is wrong with picking up an underfactored engine? Many of those underfactored combos many times are not Chevy's but other makes of engines that only a few can make go fast.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Think there are not some WORSE killers out there now? I agree the method is antequated to use the Dartboard techniques.

Yes there are, and believe me, some are not factored low either.

[Jeff Lee]

What's missing is the fact most racers wouldn't even bring out a new combo if it received an immediate (and assumably high) HP hit from NHRA. Take the 1994 LT1 F body for example. Factory rated at 275 HP, we all knew it would be a killer. We also knew there would be a learning curve on these FI engines. At 275 HP, it was worth the risk and hopefully the rewards would be great to the racer. What are they now? 326 HP or so? Had NHRA assigned 320+ HP to them in the begining, you wouldn't see nearly as many of them as you see today.
So I could make the argument that UNDERFACTORING is good.

I just brought to the attention an engine that's been raced and on the books since the '70's to another racer. He has dismissed the engine for his SS/GT project as "over factored" I brought it to his attention there was a revision to the compression several years ago and I thought it was worth a second look. He did and now he is building that engine. So that's an example of an "over factored" engine that maybe isn't so "over factored". I predict he'll be at the top of his class. But it will take going down the track first. And if it get's AHFS'd, then so be it. But I know sure as shinola he and I wouldn't discuss this engine if it was 20 HP higher based on some "what if" HP assignment by NHRA.

[Dick Butler]

SSDiv6 First I have reread my post and no where did I BLAME the racers. In fact I used the word Hero to describe the user of the classic "underfactor" method of building a new car.
Why limit the motors? No this does not have to do with the TOP/SS racing or TOP/STK racing. The opposite. AA/AH is the LIMITED class. Only Hemi cars..... TOP/SS and TOP/STK are for ALL BRANDS to race HEADS UP like CLASS but with MORE PEOPLE in the CLASS.
Factoring before they reach the track? What do you think a 350 chevy flat top motor with a 400 carb and heads should be if all factors are better than a 300 hp motor. Should it be 25 hp less or even or more?
What about an Injected 305 versus a carb motor? Notice I am speaking of chevy combos that have been overlooked in factor correction before they show up and then the begin to eliminate other motors as they are not agressively factored. That is not totally wrong but costly to keep changing to lower hp stuff...
Jeff. Weaker factor is how NEW cars get to be used by racers to do away with old stuff. Seems Nostalgia racing is regaining though.

[Brian Zenzen]

The heads up between grossi and stinnett was pretty interesting, at about 1700-2000ft da grossi's 9.08 was pretty impressive, but as it was said earlier stinnetts mph at almost 149 is pretty good for a 9.20, i wouldn't be surprised to see frank run a sub 9 second run later in the year

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Brian Zenzen

The heads up between grossi and stinnett was pretty interesting, at about 1700-2000ft da grossi's 9.08 was pretty impressive, but as it was said earlier stinnetts mph at almost 149 is pretty good for a 9.20, i wouldn't be surprised to see frank run a sub 9 second run later in the year

148-149 MPH equates to an 8.85 to 8.91 right now, not later in the year! Grossi' has his car working right as his 145 and change MPH equates to a 9.05-9.10.

[RPinoski1]

If you look at some photos of Stinnets car on auto imagery.....He sometimes runs a big front spoiler looking thing that is not OEM on the front of his car. He may have had it on and tripped the beams with it....

[Racin Mason]

You are exactly right Rich. Stinnett does run a spoiler (not sure about the non-OEM issue) and he always gets bogus mph readings.

That motor in Grossi's car is SOOOOO underfactored that I bet Grossi will go out and run 8.80s in Pomona, get hit with 13 horsepower and still be the fastest AA car around. If anything, that car may work better with more weight in it.

So, given all the criticism and speculation, is it safe to say that a big block will work in a fwd conversion?

[SPS]

All this comes down to a woefully inadequate tech department. As was mentioned, they don't have a flow bench, dyno etc, nor the manpower to run them or analyze the data.

Hense we have engine combos like this (and the Ford, and LS1) that are allowed to run grossly underrated until and if they are factored.

If the weather stats are close to correct on Drag Race Central, Grossi's 9.073 is an 8.921 corrected. That takes close to 730 hp to go that fast. Talk about soooo underrated.

The tech department has to do a far better job in baselining these factors. This is why I suggested (idealistically) that a head be submitted and tested before a new combo be run.

FJ

[JGrossijr]

Congratulations to the team of Frank Grossi, Phil Mandella, and Gary Hetler. They gambled, worked hard, and are enjoying some well deserved success.

[Howard Thompson]

Damn right Jim.......End of Story !