Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Has IHRA published any information about the classification of these new cars?

Bruce, not that I am aware of. As far as I know, IHRA follows, or tries to follow, NHRA rules, HP ratings, etc. Some HP factors may differ betwen the two.

Someone (maybe you?) brought up your AA car once. Does this mean no more Battery Mat Camaro? Is it for sale? Someone could have a bad-***, new G/SA-Jr Stocker in their garage soon?

LOL Barry, you're right, that could be the case before too long. What classes would they have to make for those cars? What would one of those fit? AB/SA or AE/SA or AH/SA (A Battery/Stock Automatic or A Electric/Stock Automatic or A Hybrid/Stock Automatic)?

Jared has a Pentastar on top of his Christmas Tree.

B.D. (Yeah...boring night.)

Mike, it would be A/Shock Automatic....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Smitty said, "Chrysler built the Hemi back in the 60's as a purpose built SS car and you couldn't drive it on the street. There were to versions, the street and race just like Ford."

But, you never saw a '68 Hemi Barracuda/Dart or a Thunderbolt in Stock Eliminator, did you?

No... NHRA put them in Super Stock, where they belonged, and where these new cars belong.

If these new entries had been classified into Super Stock, where they belong, nobody would be complaining.

Supercharged cars that can't even be licensed don't belong in Stock Eliminator. That flys in the face of fifty+ years of tradition.


Don't agree? That's your right, but show me a precedent.

I want disagree with you on that one sir, I have never seen where either car was in Stock Eliminator but that but doesn't change the fact that these cars haven't shown that have an overwhelming advantage in the class. Didn't a Q/SA car win today at the Gators? there were several fast AA/SA thru C/SA cars there and they didn't win so what is the issue?

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

That's definitely one advantage the Challengers have over the CJ's. If the CJ's get hit a few times they will be out of Stock like so many of you want them to be. On the other hand, the Challenger, which is rated 40 HP less for the "big" motor, will be around for the foreseeable future.

I haven't seen anyone discuss which of the two combos will be the faster of the two. I'm betting on the Dodge, but I'm admittedly biased...

My $.02

Jared,
In Stock Eliminator my WAG or wild *** guess is the 6.1L Hemi will initially make 685 HP as a prepared stock eliminator engine following the rules and current tricks of the trade. That's engine Dyno.
My WAG on the 5.4L is 725-750 HP.
Plugging those numbers and weights of 3250 Challenger and 3570 Mustang show both equal at 9.78+/-.
Previously I had predicted by the end of 2009 a Mustang CJ500 will clock a 9.42. So far we've seen an official 9.79 on race #2 so I don't think I'm going to be out in left field on the Mustang prediction.
And I'll bet a 5-speed with the proper race clutch behind a 6.1L Hemi will see at least a 9.55 ET by the end of the year.
My WAG is that by the end of 2009 if a 5-speed Challenger 6.1L is properly built and driven with a high RPM launch (7500 or so) , it will be the fastest car in class. And I don't think a auto trans Challenger will be much slower.
I'm betting the Challengers will always have less traction issues (start and down-track) than the Mustang.
Maybe this should be it's own thread?

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I want disagree with you on that one sir, I have never seen where either car was in Stock Eliminator but that but doesn't change the fact that these cars haven't shown that have an overwhelming advantage in the class. Didn't a Q/SA car win today at the Gators? there were several fast AA/SA thru C/SA cars there and they didn't win so what is the issue?

Well, the Mustang won the first race it was entered in, and the Challenger hasn't run yet, so I'm not sure there's much to go by yet, beyond their factors. The Mustang factors are, as almost everone agrees, absurdly soft. That would give them a huge advantage in Class racing, but not necessarily in the Eliminator until they have a race with another similarly-classed car. Ken Miele owns and races arguably the fastest AA/SA car in competition (until these Mustangs came into the picture), and he's admitted that they are a LOT faster than his car... because of the weight they DON'T have to carry, due to their soft factor.

The Challengers are an unknown entity at this point, from where I stand.

As for your question about lower classed cars winning... there is no question. The ONLY problem with all of this as I see it, is the unrealistic HP factor given these blown 'stangs.

Yes, a lower class car won Gainesville, but the advantage that under-factored (such as the Mustang) cars have, disappears in handicap (Eliminator) racing, so the issue is not with cars in other classes... just issues for cars in the under-factored car's class.
It gladdens my heart when a lower-classed car wins; I feel it somehow validates the handicap system's ability to level the playing field between the slower cars and the fast ones. Now, if they'd just get rid if the antique "first red light loses" rule, which deprives the quicker car of his chance to red light if the first car bulbs, then there would be very little to complain about. That would be another step toward making things as fair as they could possibly be.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

That's definitely one advantage the Challengers have over the CJ's. If the CJ's get hit a few times they will be out of Stock like so many of you want them to be.

I dont think so..there's gonna be a new rule before that happens...going something like: Cars can always stay in stock if they were classed 7.5 or higher when they entered the class...but more likley they will just add 7.0..these new stockers are gonna make SS look silly..thats for sure..

We guys with the older "higher up" cars that dont want or can afford to build something new have to start finding a new venue fast ..these Cars are here to stay..and gonna change the face of Stock and SS forever..and ultimatley kill it i think..in Phoenix half of the field were upper class cars..that means alot of heads up..if there are a total of 8-10 of these new cars at the races..do you really think there will be 40-50 of the old one's there at the same time within a couple of years? probably less than half is my prediction..that means a decline in participants..not good for the class..The fix is FX at 7.0 and put the right factor on them...fast..

p.s That FX-class should be a class in SS not Stock in my opinion..but i can buy that the new cars gets to "shine" in Stock..

[Bruce Noland]

Mike,

Yes the Camaro left a couple months ago and my new car should be out very soon. Thanks for the nice comments about the Camaro.

I need to renew my stuff with IHRA to recieve their new rule book. Are the injected cars and carbureted cars still separated at IHRA events?

Thanks.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Mike,

Yes the Camaro left a couple months ago and my new car should be out very soon. Thanks for the nice comments about the Camaro.

I need to renew my stuff with IHRA to recieve their new rule book. Are the injected cars and carbureted cars still separated at IHRA events?

Thanks.

Bruce,

Yes, stock(which includes CM),FI, Stock truck(like my dakota),stock Gt and pure stock for those who want to play for the least dough....some drive it to the track....but you do have to have the original cam, heater box, no lightweight brakes, have to run mufflers if you run headers, smaller tires..etc.

Here is the link to the rulebook.

http://www.ihra.com/competition/index.php#rulebook

Eric

[Bruce Noland]

Eric,
Thank you for the information and link.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Eric,
Thank you for the information and link.

Good luck with your new ride. If you have it ready in time you would likely enjoy the D-1 proam and Sportsman National at Richmond at the end of May likely pretty close to you.

Eric