worst red light debate, again! - Page 58

John Kelley · 05-17-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RULER

Well sense these aa/s and a/s cars get the same tire on the rear that the slower class car gets to use can they add traction control if the red light rule is changed because now there at a disadvantage on a hot track, when is this going to stop. SOMEBODY PUT A BAG OVER THIS GUYS HEAD!!!!!!

A" NO NAME" is trying to shut people up now ?

Jeff Teuton · 05-17-2011, 09:45 PM

What's a bong? Is that sorta like a really good Martini. Absolute has a new one, Orient Vodka with apple and ginger. Can't wait to try it. Three or four of them will make you bong. Is that a bong. Help please!!!

Andys dad · 05-17-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

What's a bong? Is that sorta like a really good Martini. Absolute has a new one, Orient Vodka with apple and ginger. Can't wait to try it. Three or four of them will make you bong. Is that a bong. Help please!!!

Damn you Jeff - I had absolutely (get it) sworn off of this stupid thread and then I saw you were last to post.

I know you always have something stowic to say

I thought he meant "thong" or "dong" or was it Ray - "but you doesn't have to call me Johnson"

Talk to you in the AM

LMAO

:-) peace

HawkBrosMav · 05-18-2011, 11:54 AM

Here's my thoughts after seeing that this has made it 58 pages for the i dunno 15th or 16th time.

We all participate in the sport of Drag racing right? Fastest car wins every time cause it's a performance based sport. Somewhere along the way someone decided they could get WAY more involvement in the sport and let many others join in on their passion for fast cars if he came up with a way to allow the slower car a chance to win somehow. This is where our current form of Bracket racing came from. It was a way to give the slow guy a chance and let many, many new combination of cars into the racing world. To keep an advantage on the the Fast guy's side....because after all HE IS THE FASTER CAR and HE WOULD WIN IN EVERY RACE if it was heads up... this creator of Bracket racing wrote the red light rule so the FIRST guy that lit the bulb red LOST.

Look he gave you a pretty damn good chance to win a race without taking every advantage of being the faster car out of the equation. You could show up with you M/SA car like I have and know when you stage you have NO chance of beating this A/SA car cause he is faster or we would all be building AA/SA cars and every car in the class would be the same combo OR you can show up with the rules the way they are and quit b*tching that the Faster car has all the advantage in the world...

The Faster car is SUPPOSED to win. This IS Drag racing. you've been given the opportunity to win within the rules and this is a classic example of if you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want some milk. Quit begging for Milk people.......

Brad Hawk

John Kelley · 05-18-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkBrosMav

... this creator of Bracket racing wrote the red light rule so the FIRST guy that lit the bulb red LOST. Brad Hawk

Oh SO WRONG !!
It was done that way because when the Christmas Tree and handicap racing came into being there wasn't the computer technology to do it right !
Now we have the technology with computers to make it fair for all concerned in handicap racing !

Ed Fernandez · 05-18-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kelley

Oh SO WRONG !!
It was done that way because when the Christmas Tree and handicap racing came into being there wasn't the computer technology to do it right !
Now we have the technology with computers to make it fair for all concerned in handicap racing !

Yeah it really makes it fair,especially for those non racers who get on here asking for justice.

John Kelley · 05-18-2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Yeah it really makes it fair,especially for those non racers who get on here asking for justice.

You like to SLAM people....
BUT you have never given a single sensible reason not to change it !
At post # 90 on this thread you said you were DONE with this subject...... :-)

Andys dad · 05-18-2011, 06:00 PM

OK I will mention this for the fourth time in this thread - no one has ever responded in all 58 pages

Why is it unfair to have them both lose - advantage no one

A racer who DQd himself does not get a "do over" or muligan

:-) peace

Marvin Robinson · 05-18-2011, 06:23 PM

Look, everyone, I see a lot of arguing over advantage being to the "faster" car, and whether it's "fair" or not. What is being confused here is exactly what is a faster car. The AA/S car should always be the fastest car in the eliminator, simply because it has the highest HP/Wt ratio, the question is: is it the fastest AA car. In the case of two same class cars against each other, the race is heads up, and the advantage naturally goes to the fastest car - as it should be.

What's being left out of the discussion is the DRIVER... we race each other for a reason, it's a contest of machine AND MAN.... otherwise, we could give out the prizes after qualifying rounds are over. The drivers compete against each other as well, and that's what the handicap starts allow, the dialing under making the eliminator a level field for everyone... the faster cars DO often have the luxury of seeing a redlight and getting a "bye", and we can rightly debate whether this is fair, but the faster car part is an apples/oranges type of argument. I remember when handicaps used to be set by the National records, and that penalized those who didn't have the ability to go as far under as the guy in the next lane, so some drivers, depending on class matchups, had an unfairly earned advantage. If you think about it, that system could actually favor the slower cars, because any HP improvement will have a bigger effect on a lower HP car (although I know the weights involved would smooth that out somewhat).

The system we have now keeps the driver component in the equation, and the only question is if it's fair to allow the 2nd car leaving the chance to get a freebie... I've been on both the rabbit and tortise side, and there are several advantages the faster car will have regardless of how you handle the redlights. Giving both drivers the opportunity to beat themselves on the tree might be a little more fair... but I don't know that we can ever have a calm or reasoned discussion about it because passions are so high. I think the only time having a faster car should be an advantage is when the two cars are in the same class, and with exception of the redlight issue, we already have that.

Ed Fernandez · 05-18-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kelley

You like to SLAM people....
BUT you have never given a single sensible reason not to change it !
At post # 90 on this thread you said you were DONE with this subject...... :-)

John Kelly:

NHRA Class #:None
" Type of car:None
Future NHRA # and car:None
Rule change implications for John Kelly:None
Conclusion:Nosey body

05-17-2011, 09:45 PM	#572
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: worst red light debate, again! What's a bong? Is that sorta like a really good Martini. Absolute has a new one, Orient Vodka with apple and ginger. Can't wait to try it. Three or four of them will make you bong. Is that a bong. Help please!!! __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

05-18-2011, 11:54 AM	#574
HawkBrosMav Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 362 Likes: 6 Liked 302 Times in 73 Posts	Re: worst red light debate, again! Here's my thoughts after seeing that this has made it 58 pages for the i dunno 15th or 16th time. We all participate in the sport of Drag racing right? Fastest car wins every time cause it's a performance based sport. Somewhere along the way someone decided they could get WAY more involvement in the sport and let many others join in on their passion for fast cars if he came up with a way to allow the slower car a chance to win somehow. This is where our current form of Bracket racing came from. It was a way to give the slow guy a chance and let many, many new combination of cars into the racing world. To keep an advantage on the the Fast guy's side....because after all HE IS THE FASTER CAR and HE WOULD WIN IN EVERY RACE if it was heads up... this creator of Bracket racing wrote the red light rule so the FIRST guy that lit the bulb red LOST. Look he gave you a pretty damn good chance to win a race without taking every advantage of being the faster car out of the equation. You could show up with you M/SA car like I have and know when you stage you have NO chance of beating this A/SA car cause he is faster or we would all be building AA/SA cars and every car in the class would be the same combo OR you can show up with the rules the way they are and quit b*tching that the Faster car has all the advantage in the world... The Faster car is SUPPOSED to win. This IS Drag racing. you've been given the opportunity to win within the rules and this is a classic example of if you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want some milk. Quit begging for Milk people....... Brad Hawk

05-18-2011, 06:00 PM	#578
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: worst red light debate, again! OK I will mention this for the fourth time in this thread - no one has ever responded in all 58 pages Why is it unfair to have them both lose - advantage no one A racer who DQd himself does not get a "do over" or muligan :-) peace __________________ time is our most precious resource, you can always make more money but you can never make more time spend your time wisely with the ones you love - Ron Durham

05-18-2011, 06:23 PM	#579
Marvin Robinson Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Gary, IN Posts: 139 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: worst red light debate, again! Look, everyone, I see a lot of arguing over advantage being to the "faster" car, and whether it's "fair" or not. What is being confused here is exactly what is a faster car. The AA/S car should always be the fastest car in the eliminator, simply because it has the highest HP/Wt ratio, the question is: is it the fastest AA car. In the case of two same class cars against each other, the race is heads up, and the advantage naturally goes to the fastest car - as it should be. What's being left out of the discussion is the DRIVER... we race each other for a reason, it's a contest of machine AND MAN.... otherwise, we could give out the prizes after qualifying rounds are over. The drivers compete against each other as well, and that's what the handicap starts allow, the dialing under making the eliminator a level field for everyone... the faster cars DO often have the luxury of seeing a redlight and getting a "bye", and we can rightly debate whether this is fair, but the faster car part is an apples/oranges type of argument. I remember when handicaps used to be set by the National records, and that penalized those who didn't have the ability to go as far under as the guy in the next lane, so some drivers, depending on class matchups, had an unfairly earned advantage. If you think about it, that system could actually favor the slower cars, because any HP improvement will have a bigger effect on a lower HP car (although I know the weights involved would smooth that out somewhat). The system we have now keeps the driver component in the equation, and the only question is if it's fair to allow the 2nd car leaving the chance to get a freebie... I've been on both the rabbit and tortise side, and there are several advantages the faster car will have regardless of how you handle the redlights. Giving both drivers the opportunity to beat themselves on the tree might be a little more fair... but I don't know that we can ever have a calm or reasoned discussion about it because passions are so high. I think the only time having a faster car should be an advantage is when the two cars are in the same class, and with exception of the redlight issue, we already have that. __________________ Marvin Robinson 3188 STK/SS