Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Combine sticks and autos. I am submitting this to NHRA. I know with 110% certainty it will be shot down of course....
(from an old post but I'm confident the percentages wouldn't be any different today as 1 year ago).

According to Nitro Joe's Stats (from 6/13/12 issue)

Stock / Stick racers: 115
Stock / Auto racers: 836
(RWD classes counted)
Only 13.76% of NHRA racers are Stock / Stick RWD





Super Stock / Stick racers in SS/A through SS/O: 29
Super Stock / Auto in SS/AA through SS/PA racers: 221
Only 13.12% of NHRA racers are Super Stock / Stick RWD

Super Stock / Stick racers in GT/A through GT/M: 31
Super Stock / Auto racers in GT/AA through GT/MA: 260
Only 11.92% of NHRA racers are Super Stock GT / Stick RWD

RWD classes that differentiate between transmissions counted; i.e., not showing SS/AH or Modified. I also didn't show SS/AAA or SSA/A or the truck classes because I don't even know what transmissions are allowed in these classes.

Also realize these numbers are higher because many racers, both stick & auto bounce up or down a class.

Bottom line, less than 14% of all Stock or Super Stock racers use a manual transmission.

Jeff also no weight breaks for autos. With the technology today there just as fast as a stick.

[Jeff Lee]

Deuces,
I addressed the disparity of the indexes and the HP between stick / auto classes. Should be no disparity in my opinion.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I'm stick all the way,but there is some problems with combining sticks & autos.

The lower you go in the classes the biggger the performance gap getsJ or K on down is where the differences really start to show is A-B stick could be a little slower in stock than auto-then C through J or K you are correct they run pretty close in stock,SS is now different deal than few years ago,since clutchless trans have been allowed,I will give same answer I use to tell friends that tried to tell me I could go faster w/glide than my 5 spd.,that was if a glide was so fast why did'nt you see any pro stocks w/ glide?
and why did you get 250 lbs weight reduction in modified/comp car w/auto?

I don't think you can run a auto SS car against a clutchless SS car heads up and it be a even match,unless the stick guy's car is off in left field and the auto is perfectly setup.

I don't think it makes much sense to combine sticks and autos in stk. and SS when they just seperated them in comp a few years ago,if they can't run combined in comp how can you expect it to work in stk and SS?

Mike Taylor 3601

[denbreeden]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Oh, Dennis, at 3770 lbs you could still run about 1.5 under. LOL

I couldn't but I'm not saying it couldn't be done with a 5.7, lol.

Dennis Breeden

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by denbreeden

I couldn't but I'm not saying it couldn't be done with a 5.7, lol.

Dennis Breeden

Just got my DragStats yesterday. Fastest SS/JA car listed is one of those. Div 4 car. It's a Stocker, 9" tires, foot brake, leaves REAL soft, yet runs over 108 in the 1/8th, and high 130s in the 1/4. If I ever have to race it I'm going to help you get some hp. LOL

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Mike Taylor 3601

I'm stick all the way,but there is some problems with combining sticks & autos.

The lower you go in the classes the biggger the performance gap getsJ or K on down is where the differences really start to show is A-B stick could be a little slower in stock than auto-then C through J or K you are correct they run pretty close in stock,SS is now different deal than few years ago,since clutchless trans have been allowed,I will give same answer I use to tell friends that tried to tell me I could go faster w/glide than my 5 spd.,that was if a glide was so fast why did'nt you see any pro stocks w/ glide?
and why did you get 250 lbs weight reduction in modified/comp car w/auto?

I don't think you can run a auto SS car against a clutchless SS car heads up and it be a even match,unless the stick guy's car is off in left field and the auto is perfectly setup.

I don't think it makes much sense to combine sticks and autos in stk. and SS when they just seperated them in comp a few years ago,if they can't run combined in comp how can you expect it to work in stk and SS?

Mike Taylor 3601

Comparing Stock or Super Stock to Comp is like comparing apples to zucchini's. Not even the same book except they all have four wheels and tires.
I'd suggest you subscribe to Nitro Joe's stat's for only $50 per year. It might broaden your thinking on the subject. The SS stick cars are typically considerably slower than their auto trans counterparts.
Then you have the difference in indexes. Use SS/J vs. SS/JA as an example. The index for SS/J is 10.80. The index for SS/JA is 11:00. Right off the bat the SS/JA car has a two-tenths advantage.
Rob Youngblood runs SS/J with a 350 'Vette and Don Little runs SS/JA with a 383 Challenger. They both are rated the same HP and they typically run about the same ET when they are at the same event together. Don will qualify in the top 5, Rob will qualify in the 15-20 position. Same ET. Same weight. Probably even the same HP. But Don gets a higher position on the ladder. Does this seem rational?

Combine sticks and autos and you'll see half the eliminator field which will be more manageable in time for the event. You'll see more heads up which will be more exciting for the fans. Might even get some TV time because really, does anybody like watching singles or combo races at a National event?

[Tom Moock]

Jeff, I think you forgot about GT classes in SS, if someone doesn`t want to run heads up they can find 3 other classes. Why is it the stick racer that want to combine sticks and auto? Tom

[Dyno]

NHRA combined the sticks and auto in SS/AH, the fastest cars are the sticks. The record is now held by an auto, but if Charlie decides he wants the record back, he would do it with the stick.

[JRyan]

Mike Taylor is absolutely correct.
The lower classes it's not even close. I own a really fast ss/na or ma car and I know of a couple cars I can't get within a couple tenths of on the same day same track. I'm not talking about a car that can go .80 under. It can go 1.1-1.2 under in N just about at will. Then lets talk about the 283 Chevy II. The stick is also quicker then the auto or how about Kip Martins car. I don't know of any ss/la that can hold a candle to that car. In many cases yes they are fairly close. But the lower the power and heavier the weight the stick has a huge advantage. Some would may say well just put a stick in the car. Well not all cars were built with that option either.

Rick

[Alan Roehrich]

If you really want to cut the number of classes and make it actually count, in Stock, get rid of the 1/2 pound weight breaks at the top, and roll the FWD cars into the regular classes. That will create a lot more heads up races and cut down on a lot more solo passes than combining sticks and automatics will.

Of course, there will be much moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth, etc, especially from the FWD people.