Body roll....help!!

ericsz · 03-11-2010, 01:59 PM

I have just mini tubbed my 69 Camaro, I moved the leafs in 6" on each side and the shocks are now on the inside of the leaf springs in a straight up and down location, got it out for first time last night and the car now how a crap load of body roll. I don't have a sway bar or anit roll bar back there. what do some of you use to limit body roll?? Thanks, pictures are always helpful. Thanks in advance..

Robert Simpson · 03-11-2010, 04:06 PM

Eric you might have to put a extra leaf in the pas side spring. Also I am guessing that the shocks might not be tight enough or you might have to lean the tops of the shocks in slightly to help compensate for roll. Just a thought. I am sure when you get a couple pictures you will get more suggestions.

ericsz · 04-05-2010, 09:22 PM

Ok, so could body roll cause driveshaft/ujoint breakage? took the car out this weekend, and man it has some body roll. 1st pass car went down the track and 2nd pass let go of the button and KABOOM!! looks as if the stock style u joint strap broke and that was all she wrote, broke the pinion yoke ear and bent the driveshaft. So I am having a new one built with a 1350 yoke on it, think this will take care of the issue? and what is your recommendations to fix the roll? Anti roll bar? Thanks.

treessavoy · 04-05-2010, 11:15 PM

That sounds like a pinion angle problem. I had that problem until I increased the pinion angle to 4 degrees but that's on a Mopar.

Some of the Chevy guys can help you with the proper angle.

JimR

Tom Goldman · 04-06-2010, 07:21 AM

By moving the springs inboard , you have effectively reduced the spring rate . How, did ths happen? ...By increasing the lever ratio the spring sees working against it. ......you have more axle housing outside the spring now ,so when the chassis rolls on launch, there is more leverage against it ...............As was suggested ,you could add a leaf to stiffen the right side. ....You could also counter the roll by staggering the shock valving from side to side., if you have a good set of double adj. shocks. ........I would probably go with the anti roll bar,as it is the easiest for a racer to tune at the track. ...............Your pinion angle may be off ,but excessive roll could have allowed the pinion to twist up to the point of binding ........If it's a Cal track or slapper type bar , go with no more than the suggested 4 deg. .........I've done this to quite a few cars over the years and have seen the problem a few times, usually on higher hp,longer wheelbase cars. .............Tom

ericsz · 04-06-2010, 07:47 AM

Just to let you know the car is definately not a HP machine, it is a mild 406 runs 7.20's in the 1/8th with CE Slide a Links. Has the Ranchos out back that Calvert recommends for the Caltracs.

Robert Simpson · 04-06-2010, 11:46 AM

Eric, what Tom said is exactly how I see it. I would not think that your drive shaft or pinion hit the floor due to body roll. If it did you have MAJOR roll. My first thought, without seeing or knowing your car, would be to put a additional leaf on the pass side, tighten up the shock on the pass side. But make sure that you leave your bars loose when making these adjustments then re set you bars. Yes, a sway bar would help. I am just thinking of inexspensive things to try. I hope you get it working out for you. Maybe it was just one of those things as far as your drive shafts breaking? Build it better and go back at it. But check the gear in your rear end. When things like that break, in our cars, we have to check other things because it sets a harmonic through the drivetrain that could crack a gear, and cut the life down on parts. Hope this helps.

ericsz · 04-06-2010, 02:36 PM

one more thing to note, the rear shocks have also been relocated, they are now installed straight up and down and not in the stock style staggered position, would this have anything to do with it?

Tom Goldman · 04-06-2010, 04:04 PM

The loss of the shock stagger itself wont have an effect on the roll,but shock location has an effect on the damping ratio, vertical to roughly 5 deg front or rear angle will allow the maximum damping efficency of the shock . ....Angleing inward ,as factory Mopars are, will reduce the damping ratio at the wheel.....Don't over look the possibility of a loose or worn left front shock. ..the wider ,stock rear spring stance may have masked a problem that was there before....Tom

rayfin · 04-06-2010, 07:37 PM

What class does it run? I'd just put a panhard rod on it if rules allow.

03-11-2010, 01:59 PM	#1
ericsz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Body roll....help!! I have just mini tubbed my 69 Camaro, I moved the leafs in 6" on each side and the shocks are now on the inside of the leaf springs in a straight up and down location, got it out for first time last night and the car now how a crap load of body roll. I don't have a sway bar or anit roll bar back there. what do some of you use to limit body roll?? Thanks, pictures are always helpful. Thanks in advance.. __________________ Eric Bowling

03-11-2010, 04:06 PM	#2
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 808 Likes: 7 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! Eric you might have to put a extra leaf in the pas side spring. Also I am guessing that the shocks might not be tight enough or you might have to lean the tops of the shocks in slightly to help compensate for roll. Just a thought. I am sure when you get a couple pictures you will get more suggestions.

04-05-2010, 09:22 PM	#3
ericsz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! Ok, so could body roll cause driveshaft/ujoint breakage? took the car out this weekend, and man it has some body roll. 1st pass car went down the track and 2nd pass let go of the button and KABOOM!! looks as if the stock style u joint strap broke and that was all she wrote, broke the pinion yoke ear and bent the driveshaft. So I am having a new one built with a 1350 yoke on it, think this will take care of the issue? and what is your recommendations to fix the roll? Anti roll bar? Thanks. __________________ Eric Bowling

04-05-2010, 11:15 PM	#4
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! That sounds like a pinion angle problem. I had that problem until I increased the pinion angle to 4 degrees but that's on a Mopar. Some of the Chevy guys can help you with the proper angle. JimR __________________ Jim Rountree

04-06-2010, 07:21 AM	#5
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,475 Likes: 887 Liked 865 Times in 235 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! By moving the springs inboard , you have effectively reduced the spring rate . How, did ths happen? ...By increasing the lever ratio the spring sees working against it. ......you have more axle housing outside the spring now ,so when the chassis rolls on launch, there is more leverage against it ...............As was suggested ,you could add a leaf to stiffen the right side. ....You could also counter the roll by staggering the shock valving from side to side., if you have a good set of double adj. shocks. ........I would probably go with the anti roll bar,as it is the easiest for a racer to tune at the track. ...............Your pinion angle may be off ,but excessive roll could have allowed the pinion to twist up to the point of binding ........If it's a Cal track or slapper type bar , go with no more than the suggested 4 deg. .........I've done this to quite a few cars over the years and have seen the problem a few times, usually on higher hp,longer wheelbase cars. .............Tom __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

04-06-2010, 07:47 AM	#6
ericsz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! Just to let you know the car is definately not a HP machine, it is a mild 406 runs 7.20's in the 1/8th with CE Slide a Links. Has the Ranchos out back that Calvert recommends for the Caltracs. __________________ Eric Bowling

04-06-2010, 11:46 AM	#7
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 808 Likes: 7 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! Eric, what Tom said is exactly how I see it. I would not think that your drive shaft or pinion hit the floor due to body roll. If it did you have MAJOR roll. My first thought, without seeing or knowing your car, would be to put a additional leaf on the pass side, tighten up the shock on the pass side. But make sure that you leave your bars loose when making these adjustments then re set you bars. Yes, a sway bar would help. I am just thinking of inexspensive things to try. I hope you get it working out for you. Maybe it was just one of those things as far as your drive shafts breaking? Build it better and go back at it. But check the gear in your rear end. When things like that break, in our cars, we have to check other things because it sets a harmonic through the drivetrain that could crack a gear, and cut the life down on parts. Hope this helps.

04-06-2010, 02:36 PM	#8
ericsz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! one more thing to note, the rear shocks have also been relocated, they are now installed straight up and down and not in the stock style staggered position, would this have anything to do with it? __________________ Eric Bowling

04-06-2010, 04:04 PM	#9
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,475 Likes: 887 Liked 865 Times in 235 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! The loss of the shock stagger itself wont have an effect on the roll,but shock location has an effect on the damping ratio, vertical to roughly 5 deg front or rear angle will allow the maximum damping efficency of the shock . ....Angleing inward ,as factory Mopars are, will reduce the damping ratio at the wheel.....Don't over look the possibility of a loose or worn left front shock. ..the wider ,stock rear spring stance may have masked a problem that was there before....Tom __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

04-06-2010, 07:37 PM	#10
rayfin Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 134 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Body roll....help!! What class does it run? I'd just put a panhard rod on it if rules allow.