My First Stocker Cam

Dave Noll · 10-12-2012, 02:46 PM

Just received a cam, for my N/SA 351C 72 Cougar, that I had custom ground to their recommendation. The cam card is identical to the specs that they e-mailed me. I said I didn't want a dwell cam, but it sure looks like it is. They said to just use their race hydraulic lifters & a 926 spring. I dont have any experience with a lobe like this. Is this the current trend ? Break it in the same as a production aftermarket cam ?

Mike Taylor 3601 · 10-13-2012, 12:40 AM

Break in like any other flat tappet,make sure you don't have too much spring pressure for break in,less than 300 lbs open.
use a oil with high zinc,like Gibbs or Lucas break in oil also
If you can get lifters w/ .015 plunger travel will work better Precision products performance center in NC has tool steel version for around 450.00 set.
How much spring you need depends on how agressive of lobe you have, how much rpm
going to turn.
926 spring I'm guessing you have Comp stuff since that sounds like comp part# ,if is comp do you know who you talked to? if is'nt comp who's is it?
Mike Taylor 3601

Dave Noll · 10-13-2012, 03:37 AM

Yes it's from comp.The guy that I dealt with said he was consulting with one of the two stocker knowledgeable guy's that they have there. I was planning on turning about 6000 in the lights. Looking at the side of the lobe (from where the timing chain gear installs) the top of the lobe almost looks square, like an agressive roller cam. I thought that was called a "Dwell" cam. And for a dwell cam I thought you needed something like a schubeck lifter. The card says it has 299' @ .006 & 250' @ .050. ( .407 valve lift). By the way, mine is a 2 bbl combo.

Alan Roehrich · 10-13-2012, 07:29 AM

The two guys to talk to at Comp are Tim Cole, and Chris Padgitt. Tim Cole runs the racing department, he is a Super Stock racer, and an engine builder, Those two guys do all of my cams except the circle track cams, and Dave McCarver, who works for Tim, does those.

Your new cam should have been nitrided , and on a P-55 cor or better. If it was not nitrided, you need to call Tim and see if you can send it back and have it nitrided.

I use the Trend tool steel lifters, Trend is the company that makes the pushrods for Comp.

For break in, you need the low spring pressure, as previously mentioned, you need to use a moly based assembly lube, and you need a high ZDDP content oil that is 20W 50 viscosity or higher.

Tom keedle · 10-13-2012, 08:01 AM

fwiw, i'm planning on using the old oem springs for break-in...anybody see any issues with that?

Billy Nees · 10-13-2012, 12:36 PM

If you're the only one trying a 351c/2V combo, I'll pretty well guarantee you that you will be putting a few cams through it. Too big isn't a good thing. If you've got a (carb limited) 6000 RPM motor then there's no sense in installing a 7500 RPM cam. Keep it small and try and make cylinder pressure.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 10-13-2012, 01:31 PM

Tom,old OEM springs should be good for break in.

Like Billy said that probaly won't be your only cam, and 2 bbl is whole different deal it is easier to be too big,usaully ex. duration does'nt need to be bigger than intake duration,due to ex flowing high% of intake,ex could be 90% of intake flow verses 70% in unrestricted intake combo as example. Check lift @ valve w/spring pressure you'll be running, if comes up short of .407 then you can have amount short added to next cam,leave,I probaly would shoot for .400 to be sure I checked legal.
If don't have valve train yet try to make stiff as possible.

Dwell does'nt have to have Shubeck style lifter,spring pressure is reason for that. There are dwell nose lobes that were ran back when stock spring pressure rules were in effect.
I would say that 130-140 seat and 325-350 open would work with your cam and 6000,but I would verify w/ Tim or Chris. You might have to set seat pressure higher to get open press right,but won't matter,because what does damage is open pressure too high.
You can use race hyd. like they said,but lifter w/.015 travel will be faster,due to it not compressing,no matter what a real hyd. is going to compress some.

You may want use the race hyd. this time,to save $'s, especially if you are trying to get a baseline on your combo,and you can always upgrade lifters later w/out changing cam.

Mike Taylor 3601

Dave Noll · 10-13-2012, 06:23 PM

Wow. Lots of great advice, thanks. $450.00 lifters ? I was trying to avoid that, maybe stock has passed me by before I could afford it. I knew I was in for a bit of a struggle with the 2 bbl. motor but with the car I have & the budget, "N" is about my only way in. Talked with Waldo & Yougblood about this car a while ago & got differing opinions. When I contacted Comp & they came up with these #'s, they were almost identical to what I came up with in an engine building program & I couldn't get it over 5500 - 6000 without power dropping after that no matter what I tryed. I know we don't race computer's so from real world experience, are these #'s close ? The installed intake c/l is supposed to be 102 & lobe sep. 105.

Greg Hill · 10-13-2012, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Noll

Wow. Lots of great advice, thanks. $450.00 lifters ? I was trying to avoid that, maybe stock has passed me by before I could afford it. I knew I was in for a bit of a struggle with the 2 bbl. motor but with the car I have & the budget, "N" is about my only way in. Talked with Waldo & Yougblood about this car a while ago & got differing opinions. When I contacted Comp & they came up with these #'s, they were almost identical to what I came up with in an engine building program & I couldn't get it over 5500 - 6000 without power dropping after that no matter what I tryed. I know we don't race computer's so from real world experience, are these #'s close ? The installed intake c/l is supposed to be 102 & lobe sep. 105.

Dave, Vern Buchanan use to run a two barrel Cleveland years ago. He might be some help. Pm me and I 'll send you his number.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 10-14-2012, 12:01 AM

Dave, the$450.00 is just a little over half of what the Smith's are (Shubeck's)
I remember my first stocker cost a lot less to build than 10.90 H/R car would have and paid the same,now 24 years later it is reversed.
I think you are in ballpark on cam.
Mike Taylor 3601

10-12-2012, 02:46 PM	#1
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 707 Likes: 2,609 Liked 236 Times in 109 Posts	My First Stocker Cam Just received a cam, for my N/SA 351C 72 Cougar, that I had custom ground to their recommendation. The cam card is identical to the specs that they e-mailed me. I said I didn't want a dwell cam, but it sure looks like it is. They said to just use their race hydraulic lifters & a 926 spring. I dont have any experience with a lobe like this. Is this the current trend ? Break it in the same as a production aftermarket cam ? __________________ Dave Noll, EF/S ,?/SA 6526

10-13-2012, 12:40 AM	#2
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,349 Likes: 298 Liked 248 Times in 87 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam Break in like any other flat tappet,make sure you don't have too much spring pressure for break in,less than 300 lbs open. use a oil with high zinc,like Gibbs or Lucas break in oil also If you can get lifters w/ .015 plunger travel will work better Precision products performance center in NC has tool steel version for around 450.00 set. How much spring you need depends on how agressive of lobe you have, how much rpm going to turn. 926 spring I'm guessing you have Comp stuff since that sounds like comp part# ,if is comp do you know who you talked to? if is'nt comp who's is it? Mike Taylor 3601

10-13-2012, 03:37 AM	#3
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 707 Likes: 2,609 Liked 236 Times in 109 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam Yes it's from comp.The guy that I dealt with said he was consulting with one of the two stocker knowledgeable guy's that they have there. I was planning on turning about 6000 in the lights. Looking at the side of the lobe (from where the timing chain gear installs) the top of the lobe almost looks square, like an agressive roller cam. I thought that was called a "Dwell" cam. And for a dwell cam I thought you needed something like a schubeck lifter. The card says it has 299' @ .006 & 250' @ .050. ( .407 valve lift). By the way, mine is a 2 bbl combo. __________________ Dave Noll, EF/S ,?/SA 6526

10-13-2012, 07:29 AM	#4
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,066 Likes: 1,487 Liked 1,630 Times in 378 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam The two guys to talk to at Comp are Tim Cole, and Chris Padgitt. Tim Cole runs the racing department, he is a Super Stock racer, and an engine builder, Those two guys do all of my cams except the circle track cams, and Dave McCarver, who works for Tim, does those. Your new cam should have been nitrided , and on a P-55 cor or better. If it was not nitrided, you need to call Tim and see if you can send it back and have it nitrided. I use the Trend tool steel lifters, Trend is the company that makes the pushrods for Comp. For break in, you need the low spring pressure, as previously mentioned, you need to use a moly based assembly lube, and you need a high ZDDP content oil that is 20W 50 viscosity or higher. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

10-13-2012, 08:01 AM	#5
Tom keedle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berthoud, Coloraduh Posts: 695 Likes: 13 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam fwiw, i'm planning on using the old oem springs for break-in...anybody see any issues with that? __________________ without losers,winning means nothing.

10-13-2012, 12:36 PM	#6
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,473 Likes: 3,564 Liked 7,595 Times in 1,718 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam If you're the only one trying a 351c/2V combo, I'll pretty well guarantee you that you will be putting a few cams through it. Too big isn't a good thing. If you've got a (carb limited) 6000 RPM motor then there's no sense in installing a 7500 RPM cam. Keep it small and try and make cylinder pressure. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm OK..........it's everybody else.

10-13-2012, 01:31 PM	#7
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,349 Likes: 298 Liked 248 Times in 87 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam Tom,old OEM springs should be good for break in. Like Billy said that probaly won't be your only cam, and 2 bbl is whole different deal it is easier to be too big,usaully ex. duration does'nt need to be bigger than intake duration,due to ex flowing high% of intake,ex could be 90% of intake flow verses 70% in unrestricted intake combo as example. Check lift @ valve w/spring pressure you'll be running, if comes up short of .407 then you can have amount short added to next cam,leave,I probaly would shoot for .400 to be sure I checked legal. If don't have valve train yet try to make stiff as possible. Dwell does'nt have to have Shubeck style lifter,spring pressure is reason for that. There are dwell nose lobes that were ran back when stock spring pressure rules were in effect. I would say that 130-140 seat and 325-350 open would work with your cam and 6000,but I would verify w/ Tim or Chris. You might have to set seat pressure higher to get open press right,but won't matter,because what does damage is open pressure too high. You can use race hyd. like they said,but lifter w/.015 travel will be faster,due to it not compressing,no matter what a real hyd. is going to compress some. You may want use the race hyd. this time,to save $'s, especially if you are trying to get a baseline on your combo,and you can always upgrade lifters later w/out changing cam. Mike Taylor 3601

10-13-2012, 06:23 PM	#8
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 707 Likes: 2,609 Liked 236 Times in 109 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam Wow. Lots of great advice, thanks. $450.00 lifters ? I was trying to avoid that, maybe stock has passed me by before I could afford it. I knew I was in for a bit of a struggle with the 2 bbl. motor but with the car I have & the budget, "N" is about my only way in. Talked with Waldo & Yougblood about this car a while ago & got differing opinions. When I contacted Comp & they came up with these #'s, they were almost identical to what I came up with in an engine building program & I couldn't get it over 5500 - 6000 without power dropping after that no matter what I tryed. I know we don't race computer's so from real world experience, are these #'s close ? The installed intake c/l is supposed to be 102 & lobe sep. 105. __________________ Dave Noll, EF/S ,?/SA 6526

10-14-2012, 12:01 AM	#10
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,349 Likes: 298 Liked 248 Times in 87 Posts	Re: My First Stocker Cam Dave, the$450.00 is just a little over half of what the Smith's are (Shubeck's) I remember my first stocker cost a lot less to build than 10.90 H/R car would have and paid the same,now 24 years later it is reversed. I think you are in ballpark on cam. Mike Taylor 3601 Last edited by Mike Taylor 3601; 10-14-2012 at 12:13 AM.