Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking

Rick Angles · 09-26-2007, 12:27 PM

I have an Olds Starfire I am building for stock. Researching the net to change it over to 5 lug bolt pattern, I found that I can also improve the braking at the same time. For those familiar with the H-bodies, the calipers are hung with little pins that slide into a plastic sleeve. There is a bolt-on way to put S-10 spindles on the H-body,then you can use S-10 or G-body ( Monte Carlo,Cutlass,etc. ) calipers and rotors. This would give you 5 lug wheels and much safer braking. See the web page for info:

http://www.v8monza.com/faq-fsus-S10_front-walk-thru.htm

But looking in the NHRA rule book, under Front Suspension:

" Must retain complete stock front suspension system as produced by manufacturer for body used."

Under Brakes, it is not so model specific. It just has to be a stock production four-wheel hydraulic brake system or can be aftermarket if it meets the criteria.

So, if I do this conversion, the brakes would be legal but the spindle change would be illegal?

Mike Hedger · 09-26-2007, 12:41 PM

I would think you could do it because you can use aftermarket brakes. I would not offer any info to the tech guy he did not ask for though. Does anyone make a bolt on aftermarket brake that will work with your spindle?

Tom Goldman · 09-26-2007, 05:36 PM

Rick, Wilwood makes a liteweight front kit for the Monza, which I believe uses the same spindle as your Starfire. P/N 14-1038 ... The kit is a light weight 2 piston setup, so if you need more braking power,you would have to engineer a bracket to use a 4 piston caliper, not a major job, as I have done it several times for "orphan" applications........NHRA's acceptance of crossbreeding suspension parts usually ends with swapping disc or drum spindles to accept available brake kits. ........Tom

Dave Goob Cook · 09-26-2007, 05:46 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking if they allowed that sort of crossbreeding of O.E. parts, Wildwood and Strange wouldn't be able to sell high priced, "accepted" light weight stuff....

Seems they would allow the upgrade for the safety aspect of better brakes and more lug nuts, but only if you spend a buttload of cash with the preferred manufacturer.....

I'm betting you cross the legal line at the spindle swap.

Rick Angles · 09-26-2007, 09:26 PM

I kind of thought there might be an aftermarket set up, but I was looking at cost also. With this being a V-6 powered lower class car, would it make since to spend a lot on it since this will be my first foray into stock? It's not like I will be stopping at 150, more like about 90.

Mike Hedger · 09-28-2007, 02:16 PM

If you are not going to have a heavy/fast car I would rebiuld your stock stuff and use it. Save up the money and later on buy a good light weight set of brakes. Did the V8 monza's come with a 5 lug rotor? If not you could have yours redrilled to 5 lug to give you more options on wheels. just a thought. What engine is a 231?

Rick Angles · 09-28-2007, 11:00 PM

The Starfire is a factory 305 ( Chevy motor ) car, Mike. It has 4 lug wheels, which they all had. The V-6 I am using is a 231 Buick from a 75 Starfire. 75-76 engines were odd-fire and in 77 ( I believe ) were changed to an even-fire engine. Guess the public wanted a smoother running engine,

. Would be nice to covert it to 5 lug and better brakes, but must keep it legal, you know.

Chris DeGidio · 09-28-2007, 11:37 PM

Personally,I don't see a legality problem at all.Us Mopar racers have been swapping the weak 9" drum brake spindles for the V-8 spindles in order to use the OE disc brakes with larger bolt pattern for years.Don't the Fords with 4 bolt wheels change over too??I don't see a performance advantage,just a safety one,so I would call the DD and ask to be sure.

Mark Yacavone · 09-29-2007, 03:44 AM

Rick I doubt very seriously if anyone would know or care if you had S-10 spindles on your car. Of course, now that you've pointed it out on an open forum....
Anyway I would think very carefully about adding any unsprung rotational weight to a V6 Stocker. If it were me, I'd probably take some away.

FED 387 · 09-29-2007, 09:39 AM

If you are just going for the 5 lug wheel approach see if the S-10 hubs will fit on your present spindle---If not I am sure any competent machinist could redrill your present hubs to allow you to use 5 lug wheels/ or redrill the wheels to fit a 4 bolt pattern --- Other wise as others have said if you are concerned about weight I would weigh a complete S-10 set up vs. the OEM Olds set up and see if you are ahead or behind weight wise---Since your car does not have a high MPH and stopping is not a problem I would continue with the status quo and leave it alone----Comp 387

09-26-2007, 12:27 PM	#1
Rick Angles Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Circleville,Ohio Posts: 113 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking I have an Olds Starfire I am building for stock. Researching the net to change it over to 5 lug bolt pattern, I found that I can also improve the braking at the same time. For those familiar with the H-bodies, the calipers are hung with little pins that slide into a plastic sleeve. There is a bolt-on way to put S-10 spindles on the H-body,then you can use S-10 or G-body ( Monte Carlo,Cutlass,etc. ) calipers and rotors. This would give you 5 lug wheels and much safer braking. See the web page for info: http://www.v8monza.com/faq-fsus-S10_front-walk-thru.htm But looking in the NHRA rule book, under Front Suspension: " Must retain complete stock front suspension system as produced by manufacturer for body used." Under Brakes, it is not so model specific. It just has to be a stock production four-wheel hydraulic brake system or can be aftermarket if it meets the criteria. So, if I do this conversion, the brakes would be legal but the spindle change would be illegal?

09-26-2007, 12:41 PM	#2
Mike Hedger Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kemah TX Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking I would think you could do it because you can use aftermarket brakes. I would not offer any info to the tech guy he did not ask for though. Does anyone make a bolt on aftermarket brake that will work with your spindle? __________________ Mike Hedger S/C 4646 MPH Racing and Fabrication

09-26-2007, 05:36 PM	#3
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,468 Likes: 875 Liked 838 Times in 232 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking Rick, Wilwood makes a liteweight front kit for the Monza, which I believe uses the same spindle as your Starfire. P/N 14-1038 ... The kit is a light weight 2 piston setup, so if you need more braking power,you would have to engineer a bracket to use a 4 piston caliper, not a major job, as I have done it several times for "orphan" applications........NHRA's acceptance of crossbreeding suspension parts usually ends with swapping disc or drum spindles to accept available brake kits. ........Tom __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

09-26-2007, 05:46 PM	#4
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking Yeah, I'm thinking if they allowed that sort of crossbreeding of O.E. parts, Wildwood and Strange wouldn't be able to sell high priced, "accepted" light weight stuff.... Seems they would allow the upgrade for the safety aspect of better brakes and more lug nuts, but only if you spend a buttload of cash with the preferred manufacturer..... I'm betting you cross the legal line at the spindle swap.

09-26-2007, 09:26 PM	#5
Rick Angles Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Circleville,Ohio Posts: 113 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking I kind of thought there might be an aftermarket set up, but I was looking at cost also. With this being a V-6 powered lower class car, would it make since to spend a lot on it since this will be my first foray into stock? It's not like I will be stopping at 150, more like about 90.

09-28-2007, 02:16 PM	#6
Mike Hedger Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kemah TX Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking If you are not going to have a heavy/fast car I would rebiuld your stock stuff and use it. Save up the money and later on buy a good light weight set of brakes. Did the V8 monza's come with a 5 lug rotor? If not you could have yours redrilled to 5 lug to give you more options on wheels. just a thought. What engine is a 231? __________________ Mike Hedger S/C 4646 MPH Racing and Fabrication

09-28-2007, 11:00 PM	#7
Rick Angles Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Circleville,Ohio Posts: 113 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking The Starfire is a factory 305 ( Chevy motor ) car, Mike. It has 4 lug wheels, which they all had. The V-6 I am using is a 231 Buick from a 75 Starfire. 75-76 engines were odd-fire and in 77 ( I believe ) were changed to an even-fire engine. Guess the public wanted a smoother running engine, . Would be nice to covert it to 5 lug and better brakes, but must keep it legal, you know.

09-28-2007, 11:37 PM	#8
Chris DeGidio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 364 Likes: 8 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking Personally,I don't see a legality problem at all.Us Mopar racers have been swapping the weak 9" drum brake spindles for the V-8 spindles in order to use the OE disc brakes with larger bolt pattern for years.Don't the Fords with 4 bolt wheels change over too??I don't see a performance advantage,just a safety one,so I would call the DD and ask to be sure. __________________ Nautilus Racing Last edited by Chris DeGidio; 09-29-2007 at 12:05 AM.

09-29-2007, 03:44 AM	#9
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,742 Likes: 2,847 Liked 5,003 Times in 1,903 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking Rick I doubt very seriously if anyone would know or care if you had S-10 spindles on your car. Of course, now that you've pointed it out on an open forum.... Anyway I would think very carefully about adding any unsprung rotational weight to a V6 Stocker. If it were me, I'd probably take some away. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

09-29-2007, 09:39 AM	#10
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: Interchanging factory spindles for improved braking If you are just going for the 5 lug wheel approach see if the S-10 hubs will fit on your present spindle---If not I am sure any competent machinist could redrill your present hubs to allow you to use 5 lug wheels/ or redrill the wheels to fit a 4 bolt pattern --- Other wise as others have said if you are concerned about weight I would weigh a complete S-10 set up vs. the OEM Olds set up and see if you are ahead or behind weight wise---Since your car does not have a high MPH and stopping is not a problem I would continue with the status quo and leave it alone----Comp 387