Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Looks like that sorta narrows it down to a Bonnie for a '77 build.

OK, you said the odd ball rear began in '77. The '76 Lemans wagon has the same 116" wb. So does it share the same rear as any of the other '73-'77 models ? 8.5 but wider ? And if so, is there a possibility that the '76 wagon rear may have the big brakes and bolt-in axles you mentioned ?

Probably does. No first hand experience though.

[Tony Corley]

Cut the axle tubes and widen them if that is the car you want to build.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

Cut the axle tubes and widen them if that is the car you want to build.

I'm not that worried about the width. I don't think they are going to measure the width of the rear at a division race. Who'd care ? But I'd like to find an 8.5 that will bolt right in, which has the factory bolt-in axles. That way, I can just buy a decent posi and gears, then race it. We've never broke a stock axle. But if I break one of these, then I'll buy some better ones.

[HandOverFist]

REAR END
Original rear end may be replaced with another from the same
automobile manufacturer; truck rear end prohibited. Aluminum
center section permitted only on vehicles that were originally
equipped with same." Distance between backing plates may not
be changed." Any gear ratio that fits third-member case or
housing permitted. Limited-slip or ratchet-type rear ends
permitted. Reinforcement of spring perch permitted. Spools
permitted only with aftermarket axles. Aftermarket axles not
required for front-wheel-drive vehicles. Larger brakes may be
used." Replacement rear end may be narrowed or widened to
obtain original rear-end width." Bracing or beefing up the rearend
housing permitted.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

REAR END
Original rear end may be replaced with another from the same
automobile manufacturer; truck rear end prohibited. Aluminum
center section permitted only on vehicles that were originally
equipped with same." Distance between backing plates may not
be changed." Any gear ratio that fits third-member case or
housing permitted. Limited-slip or ratchet-type rear ends
permitted. Reinforcement of spring perch permitted. Spools
permitted only with aftermarket axles. Aftermarket axles not
required for front-wheel-drive vehicles. Larger brakes may be
used." Replacement rear end may be narrowed or widened to
obtain original rear-end width." Bracing or beefing up the rearend
housing permitted.

Yeah, I read that. So are you saying that you think the tech guys are actually going to measure the rear end at a division 4 race, when I'm just barely running my index ? I can't see a performance advantage, that would make a difference to anybody.

Again, that's just country boy thinkin. I've never raced a Stocker at the division level. But I've recently read that unless you set a National record, there are no tear downs. So, I reason that if no tear downs, certainly they wouldn't care if your rear end was a couple of inches too short. Is that a reasonable assumption ?

[HandOverFist]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Yeah, I read that. So are you saying that you think the tech guys are actually going to measure the rear end at a division 4 race, when I'm just barely running my index ? I can't see a performance advantage, that would make a difference to anybody.

Again, that's just country boy thinkin. I've never raced a Stocker at the division level. But I've recently read that unless you set a National record, there are no tear downs. So, I reason that if no tear downs, certainly they wouldn't care if your rear end was a couple of inches too short. Is that a reasonable assumption ?

That's how it begins oldschool. Nobody is looking so it's ok to run different heads, larger valves, non-approved pistons, higher lift cam...see where this is going?

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

That's how it begins oldschool. Nobody is looking so it's ok to run different heads, larger valves, non-approved pistons, higher lift cam...see where this is going?

Yeah, I think I understand what you are saying. See if I got it right. You feel that EVERYTHING has got to be absolutely legal, including the exact width of the rear end, even to run at a division level race, or don't even take it to the track.
Is that accurate ?

I have a question for you. I've read about the acid ported heads, and the new process that the top name Stocker head shops use to open up the Stock heads for the high dollar Stock racers. I read that many of the quickest cars use these heads and get by with it. So do you consider these heads illegal, even tho the tech guys pass 'em ?

Do you think it's fair for guys running these heads to win their class at a National event, or set a National record, or win any of the big races ?

Do you think it would be worse for me to run a rear that was a couple of inches too short, in order to save some $, than for these guys to win with modified heads ?

If you were racing at the same race I was, would you protest my car or tell one of the tech guys that my rear end was 2 inches too short, and suggest that they measure it to see ? I personally would not care what rear end you had, or how wide the housing was. It would be fine with me if you wanted to run a 9" Ford or a Dana 60.

Hey, if I understand the rules correctly, except for heads up runs, both Stock and SS now run breakout bracket rules. So what difference does it make how wide your rear end housing is ? You think that might be the reason the tech is a little slack at division level races ?

Which item has a performance advantage ?-- the bogus heads or the shorter rear end housing ? If I go to the expense of having a stock housing lengthened 2 inches, and buying new axles to match, how much slower will I go ?

I

[Dion Hildebrandt]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Yeah, I read that. So are you saying that you think the tech guys are actually going to measure the rear end at a division 4 race, when I'm just barely running my index ? I can't see a performance advantage, that would make a difference to anybody.

Again, that's just country boy thinkin. I've never raced a Stocker at the division level. But I've recently read that unless you set a National record, there are no tear downs. So, I reason that if no tear downs, certainly they wouldn't care if your rear end was a couple of inches too short. Is that a reasonable assumption ?

I am weighing in with my first venture with a stocker at a divisional race. I put my car together with a used stocker engine, read and reread the rule book and figured I was ready. Went to the race had issues in tech, had issues at the scales, had issues in staging , had issues on the track. My intention was to go and qualify maybe go a round or two and go home. The reality is I had a car that couldn't run index,I ended up meeting every tech guy on the property, had the car checked as thoroughly as a tear down would be to verify I fit the class claimed, and became known to the racers that didn't know me.

I only bring this up because of your questioning if someone will measure a differential or not. When you are the "new guy on the block" there will be more attention paid than you can imagine. Look up the thread where Toby Lang blasted a competitor for "testing" an illegal carb during qualifying and tell me wrong parts don't matter. Wrong is wrong doesn't matter what $$ state a person is in. I am not a rich man and probably have a car that is not ideal for its class but I run it and run it hard, it took 8 years for the car to come around. Because of the effort I put in my car,If I become aware of a fellow competitor running illegal your damn right I would protest that, the same I would expect to be protested if I was illegal.

my $0.02 take it for what you will.