Automatic Horsepower Factoring System

[Dick Butler]

Ron Ortiz, You are correct on all the issues you have addressed. You did not address how to adjust the factoring on those weakly factored cars which would Dominate if no for of AHFS at all were present.
The hope is the AHFS could be a "hands off" way to adjust HP but forgets the human component of the driver. The driver can "choose " to sandbag, put in wt, use the brakes if everything is left alone. With NO system to adjust of any kind class racing would become very biased to Bogus Hp cars.... Not just the hard working guys or the popular well worked combinations. Some people live to be #1 qualifier .Some might say using the "ratings game" for an underfactored car motor is a weaknes of the racing.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

If the sandbagging and fear of running fast is what people are complaining about how will lowering the index help?Would the trigger be lowered too? Does that do anything? except make a number less under. Does it affect the HP problem some cars show?

Ofcourse the trigger has to remain for it to have any effect....but i guess a higher trigger would have the same effect...but com'on...should we maybe ask for adding .5 to the index? then you could probably run the index with with your daily driver or a rental...(maybe we just could fly in to those big money "Bracket Races)use the same car back and forward to the motel ..and also ..you would not need to have any gear with you...with todays costs..sounds good? Seriously if someone have problems running -.50 today..you A: aren't doing anything right with your combo(aka.working as hard as you should) B: have a combo thats wrongly factored. We should not use the Index to settle those arguments!
I think it's looks really stupid from the outside these days when everone is trying to hit -1.14 in qualifying..and many have to lift heavily,have a couple of hundred pounds extra with them or other strange tune ups!

p.s Its seems like many people think you should be guaranteed to run under the index nowdays...why is that?

[Evan Smith]

The argument is to make the indexes harder, not softer BSA.

Evan

[Jack McCarthy]

Automatic Help for Slugs CANNOT and WILL NOT EVER WORK... heard that from me for 4 years now eh ??

the system is flawed in that it cannot evaluate the POTENTIAL of any combination, it SIMPLY deals with data from previous runs which have TWO qualities that it CANNOT factor in... 1. the weather conditions and 2. the fact we can manipulate the data ourselves... END OF STORY.

we didnt like it when FARMER would give out horsepower at his sole descretion, and we didnt like the committees... but at least there was an intelligent (supposedly) being involved > not a bunch of skewed facts and a ten page rule that god cant understand (which can and does change without rhyme or reason).

i do not have the solution... but i KNOW the AHFS cant and wont ever work, we are just beating a dead horse !!!

jack mccarthy

and if they cant see that the indexes are so soft CHARMIN is considering them for a advertising campaign i dont know what to say... we have been GIVEN over 1/2 second of enhancements since they last RAISED the indexes... get real guys... lower them .50, trigger at 1.00 and lets race !!!!!

[Rich Biebel]

It's hard for me to say this, but I agree with Ed on that one I poured quite a few heads in my machine shop days. Mostly S.B. Chevy's and 12 cc's ain't happenin, and not "by accident" at least as far as the Chevy's are concerned.....they ain't even close to the NHRA numbers.....I poured my LT-1 before I put it together 2 years ago...guess what.....same deal! Well under the spec......

[Bruce Noland]

Dick,

Lots of performance changes by nhra and a stone wall to run into when you make the accepted changes. That's the problem.

Geeezz Jack where the devil have you been? There have been a ton of posts that you could have jumped on since your last post.

[Ron Ortiz]

Hey Bruce, all you have to do to get The Captain on here is bring up the AHFS. He really shows his emotional side.
By eliminating the trigger all you have to do is look at how quick the car in question went under. Does it need to be looked at closer and maybe inspected internally? Probably.
NHRA has added enough of stuff for individuals to run quicker than their indexes than they did in the past two years. But the indexes are not that soft, yes they are if you want to spend the big bucks to keep up with the Jonses though. Hey, did'nt they just allow more work to be allowed to heads?

BSA, my car is a '67 Belvedere wagon with a 273 ci 2bbl. The index is 15.15. Do any of you out there think that a car like that from the showroom could run a 15.15. NO, probably a 19 to 20 second might be appropiate, so by blueprinting, adding a gear and headers, beefing up the trans, getting down to minimum weight, and adding a stock lift cam, you might get to the index. If you can get a rental car or a daily driver to hit the index right off the bat, you definitley have hit upon a great combo, or it really needs HP.

You guys out there need to quit thinking about lowering the indexes, and start looking at the other end of the speed spectrum, thats where the problem exists. The slower end of cars are'nt doing any harm to the fast guys, it's the fast guys against the really fast guys.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA I need more money, please send me some, and I will lower the index

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

BSA, my car is a '67 Belvedere wagon with a 273 ci 2bbl. The index is 15.15. Do any of you out there think that a car like that from the showroom could run a 15.15. NO, probably a 19 to 20 second might be appropiate, so by blueprinting, adding a gear and headers, beefing up the trans, getting down to minimum weight, and adding a stock lift cam, you might get to the index. If you can get a rental car or a daily driver to hit the index right off the bat, you definitley have hit upon a great combo, or it really needs HP.

No i dont think that..just trying to be a little ironic...I didn't run the index for years when i started out(it was lower then ofcourse) but if someone only can get .3 under with todays standards and knowledge and been doing this for awhile it seems to me that they just wanna hang in there with as little effort as possible or have a totally wrong factored car....neither of those should be what dictate what the standards for a index should be...I agree that the stuff needs to be policed better to keep it fair for those who get hp when someone breaks the standards..BUT THIS IS to my best knowledge STILL a PERFORMANCE BASED eliminator..so the lower end should not be whats setting the standards for indexes and such! When the dial under bracket format was implemented it was to even out performance differences at the time,not to make it a bracket race!

[JIM BOUDREAU]

Well said Bsa!!!!!! Ididn't run the index when Istarted also. I watched Bobby Warrens bumber for years! Still am.

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Lynn, Maybe with time Nhra will accept TOP/STK and TOP/SS and a couple wt breaks as Heads up at points meets as well as Opens Then people who like that will have a choice . Dick

I was thinking that practice is boring. Bring what you brung and hope you brung enough. Heads up it in practice. If you dont want to, then use it as a practice run. Either way the fans will like it....oh..wait a minute...all the fans are at the NMCA heads up race!

50 lbs extra for an aftermarket block, 100lbs at least for aftermarket or replacement heads, 100lbs extra for bogus combos.