Mustang MPH?

[treessavoy]

Does anyone remember the '68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas?

Lets see: specially built with special parts and built in limited no's.......and...they went straight to SS.

New Mustangs.

Let's see: specially built with special parts and built in limited numbers.......and.....they went straight to......STOCK?

Jim Rountree

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Does anyone remember the '68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas?

Lets see: specially built with special parts and built in limited no's.......and...they went straight to SS.

New Mustangs.

Let's see: specially built with special parts and built in limited numbers.......and.....they went straight to......STOCK?

Jim Rountree

Jim,

Forty years have passed and a lot has changed. Todays Stock rules are like yesterdays Super Stock rules. As delivered, the Cobra Jet is nowhere near being a Super Stock car. They do however pass tech for Stock Eliminator as delivered. Just like the 1968 Hemi cars were built for Super Stock and could also be campaigned as built. To me the real issue is the HP. And so far we really haven't seen enough to make an honest judgement.
I have posted on this subject way too much, but I think a lot of guys are really missing a very important point. The showroom cars that are being built today have way to much junk in them that can legally be removed. We should be welcoming these new factory cars. The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly. Keep in mind that it was put in the books when we had one pound weight breaks for fuel injected cars. I hope that the production Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are not submitted so heavy. I would also love to see the NHRA take a fresh look at the GTO.

Daren

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly.

Was NHRA given the wrong numbers or that the numbers should be changed to fit another class?

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bsa633

Was NHRA given the wrong numbers or that the numbers should be changed to fit another class?

Lets take the 2006 model. The GTO was put in the books at 9.53. That allowed it to run A-C/FI. The fuel injected cars are now back in Stock at 1/2 lb weight breaks. The GTO would have been better off at 9.49. If there were no fuel injected classes at the time I think that GM would have submited them to run the faster classes. Please note that the net difference is approx. 12 pounds!

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Lets take the 2006 model. The GTO was put in the books at 9.53. That allowed it to run A-C/FI. The fuel injected cars are now back in Stock at 1/2 lb weight breaks. The GTO would have been better off at 9.49. If there were no fuel injected classes at the time I think that GM would have submited them to run the faster classes. Please note that the net difference is approx. 12 pounds!

That thing probably goes for hundreds of cars/combo's in the guide..but in your exapmle i dont really follow..The GTO has been granted a lower HP than Stock,still has that,HP has also been changed somewhere along the line(hit or decrease?)It would be 9.37 with the original hp...as in SS...now 9.53 as you stated..but it couldn't have been that when it arrived then..it also only take's a couple of hp(one hit) to bring it up one class if someone desire...and if it's uncompetitive ..well then a letter asking for lowering hp should be sent i guess..so.. not sure what your example is worth in this case..but in some other cases i am well aware what you saying..

p.s. On a personal note i'm still unsure if i think it was´a good move to let the cars go one class up and one down supposed to the old rule "original and one down only" .it created some new games..

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bsa633

The GTO has been granted a lower HP than Stock,still has that,HP has also been changed somewhere along the line(hit or decrease?)

I am not sure that anyone has actually raced one at 400 HP. What I was getting at is that the car could have been run as light as 3298 in A/FIA, but now the lightest you can run it is 3689 in C! That happened in the stroke of a pen. I think that that is the main thing keeping these cars out of Stock.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I am not sure that anyone has actually raced one at 400 HP. What I was getting at is that the car could have been run as light as 3298 in A/FIA, but now the lightest you can run it is 3689 in C! That happened in the stroke of a pen. I think that that is the main thing keeping these cars out of Stock.

At that time when those cars(and others)were in FI-classes they could "legally" run up to 3 classes ligther than the orginal class according to the guide as per the rules for non FI cars that could run only class ligth..i guess you can take a lot of "****" out of the newer cars but it should be almost impossible to get it that light if you think about it...you say "stroke of a pen"..i say .."same for everybody"? I know some guys that think it is better when they are back on .5 weight breaks as the rest..

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Jim,

Forty years have passed and a lot has changed. Todays Stock rules are like yesterdays Super Stock rules. As delivered, the Cobra Jet is nowhere near being a Super Stock car. They do however pass tech for Stock Eliminator as delivered. Just like the 1968 Hemi cars were built for Super Stock and could also be campaigned as built. To me the real issue is the HP. And so far we really haven't seen enough to make an honest judgement.
I have posted on this subject way too much, but I think a lot of guys are really missing a very important point. The showroom cars that are being built today have way to much junk in them that can legally be removed. We should be welcoming these new factory cars. The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly. Keep in mind that it was put in the books when we had one pound weight breaks for fuel injected cars. I hope that the production Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are not submitted so heavy. I would also love to see the NHRA take a fresh look at the GTO.

Daren

I understand your point and I probably used the wrong example.

Take the 1965 Hemi B bodies. They were fully streetable with exhaust and everything, I even knew a guy that drove one for a while before racing it, yet they are not allowed in stock. Are the Mustangs street legal?

I think the question yet to be decided is what is the real HP for the Mustanges and like the '65 Mopars do they need to go to SS instead of Stock?

I am for race cars, I race a '64 Mopar but love all the various race cars from that era....what I don't like is a killer combo dumped into the eliminator bracket that makes any number of cars obsolete, especially a factory car.

I've read all the posts and brand loyality is not the question, a fair playing field is the goal.

I made my first pass in 1964, raced in 5 major associations, and seen it all but in the end it's the racers that put pressure on the associations to bring certain extra fast combinations into line. It's a slow process but it does work.

Good luck to all of you no matter what you drive.....but I hope I kick your butt....LOL!

BTW; does anyone remember the 1966 D/Dart, factory built, street legal yet not allowed in stock?

[bill dedman]

Savoy,

Check out this previous thread here:

http://tinyurl.com/c797wv

Bill

[bill dedman]

Treesavoy,

Travis Miller posted this, on that D-Dart thread:

"The reason the D/Darts got to run Stock without enough being produced was back then the specs were sent to NHRA preproduction. Cars were put in the classguide with the understanding that enough cars would be built in the model year. Sometime in later years it must have come to light that not enough D/Darts were built for Stock class forcing them into S/S only.

Travis"

Hope this helps....

A apologize for this blatant hijack; now, back to your regularly scheduled rant....


Bill