Z-MAX car count - Page 4

Evan Smith · 09-19-2009, 05:47 AM

Both Brian and Michael are dead on.

While there is a lot of ranting on here about this and that, fact is, the economy is in the dumper and people are laying low. Virtually all forms of busniess are feeling the crunch and I'm sure NHRA is as well, along with the racers who attend these races.

Personally, I have no desire to race against crate-motor Stockers. I have nothing against the concept, and it is a cool idea that works for IHRA, but NHRA doesn't need it. When the economy rebounds the car counts will come back. If you spend the same time and effort building a crate-motor Stock engine, how is it cheaper?

What would be cool is a heads-up crate-motor class with each manufacturer supplying one small-block and one big-block naturally aspirated engine (two weight breaks) using the current Stocker rules format. With only a 6 engines to police (Mopar, Chevy and Ford) NHRA (or whatever the sanction) could closely monitor the cars. Winner and runner up remove a head after each race and use a scope to look at the bottom end.

THE LEGEND · 09-19-2009, 06:21 AM

Evan,
IHRA had that class they called it TOP STOCK. We see how that worked out for them.LOL

I agree with the cost thing. A competitive crate motor engine will cost as much as a competitive trditional engine.

Chip

X-TECH MAN · 09-19-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Both Brian and Michael are dead on.
If you spend the same time and effort building a crate-motor Stock engine, how is it cheaper?

What would be cool is a heads-up crate-motor class with each manufacturer supplying one small-block and one big-block naturally aspirated engine (two weight breaks) using the current Stocker rules format. With only a 6 engines to police (Mopar, Chevy and Ford) NHRA (or whatever the sanction) could closely monitor the cars. Winner and runner up remove a head after each race and use a scope to look at the bottom end.

The first part of the question is PARTS avaliabily and body styles. Most are much cheaper to obtain going in. You dont have to kiss some collector whores ***** to buy heads,intakes, etc. or a 67 to 69 Camaro. Not every one desires a late model Mustang or Firebird with FI.
Second part....we tried this in IHRA and no one seemed interested (Zero interest) so we came up with Top Stock then GM ramed the crate motors down our throats if IHRA wanted a sponsor for a heads up class and the rest is shall we say HISTORY. Maybe the timing was weong and 9 years later it could work if the NHRA guys were not such "Pureists" in the "Stock" concept? Hell, theres nothing stock about them today anyway except the name of the class. Neat idea and glad to see someone come back up with the again.

Michael Beard · 09-19-2009, 06:41 AM

NHRA *has* crate motor cars... they're called Cobra Jets and Challengers...

Not to mention all the superceded parts, fuel cells, wheelie bars, CSR/Meziere water pumps. -=shrug=- It is what it is.

Just pickin!

Like I said, doesn't matter. I've always said, "Tell me what the rules of the playground are, and I'll go play on it."

Hope the weather holds off today.

FOR REAL · 09-19-2009, 07:11 AM

just have to say .i love it. **** nhra.would love to see them fold.

asta

Gary Smith · 09-19-2009, 07:17 AM

The economy theory makes sense...but only to a certain extent. With low car counts, why would NHRA turn away those with "money in hand" over not having a lousy grade point??? Do the powers at NHRA deem rules are more important than where they get the money from?

Just another self inflicted bullet wound to themselves IMHO.

Rory McNeil · 09-19-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Dead-on!

I own an NHRA-legal Stocker. I haven't raced it in a number of years, but may take it out a couple times next year (with a For Sale sign on it) I bought & built a crate motor car because I choose to run IHRA. .

Micheal, if you already have a NHRA legal Stocker, why did you feel the need to build a crate motor car to run IHRA? I thought that a NHRA Stocker would fit into an existing IHRA class, no?
And, yes, wheelie bars, electric water pumps etc may not be "Stock" but they are used on cars that were factory produced vehicles. Frankly, I see nothing "Stock" about a V8 Vega Stocker, a V8 powered FWD conversion "stocker" or a 1970 car with a 2000 era engine with an aftermarket intake and Holley carb.Considering that IHRA has many more classes than NHRA, and typically far lower car counts, even without the need for grade points or pre entry, I guess NHRA must still have some appeal. Enough appeal that ex IHRA President Bill Bader switched his own track the NHRA a few years back. Being on the West Coast, there is no IHRA racing for most of us to try, other than Edmonton, while NHRA is everywhere across North America.

RJ · 09-19-2009, 09:54 AM

NHRA "stock?"/IHRA "crate stock?" - what is stock anymore?

crank - yes
aftermarket rods - no
aftermarket pistons - no
lightweight pins - no
$400+ rings - no
billet cam - no
ceramic lifters - no
big O.D. pushrods - no
500lb+ valve springs - no
lightweight retainers - no
aftermarket valves - no
bogus ports - no
any valve job - no
bogus chambers - no
bogus manifold runners - no

Just an example about how "not stock" NHRA or IHRA stock eliminator really is anyway. After 1985 or so calling anything stock is a moot point. I say let the rest of crates in, the CJ's and Challengers really are anyway.

Alan Roehrich · 09-19-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

NHRA "stock?"/IHRA "crate stock?" - what is stock anymore?

crank - yes
aftermarket rods - no
aftermarket pistons - no
lightweight pins - no
$400+ rings - no
billet cam - no
ceramic lifters - no
big O.D. pushrods - no
500lb+ valve springs - no
lightweight retainers - no
aftermarket valves - no
bogus ports - no
any valve job - no
bogus chambers - no
bogus manifold runners - no

Just an example about how "not stock" NHRA or IHRA stock eliminator really is anyway. After 1985 or so calling anything stock is a moot point. I say let the rest of crates in, the CJ's and Challengers really are anyway.

I'm like Michael, I disagree. It will not likely help the car count at all, it just makes for more rules and more tech, and NHRA is not interested in that. Besides, the fact that Stock isn't really stock any more is not a good reason to make it even less stock.

RJ · 09-19-2009, 10:18 AM

Alan. the crates have specs like anything else, so tech is tech. Just saying it might be a good idea to have the option, if the crates don't show up, there's no harm done.

I left a bunch of stuff off the list (relocated lifter bores, relocated intake ports, etc.) stock has been long gone for a long time. As I'm sure you know, if you're not thinking like a comp racer when you're building a stocker these days, you are going to be slowwwwwwww.

09-19-2009, 05:47 AM	#31
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count Both Brian and Michael are dead on. While there is a lot of ranting on here about this and that, fact is, the economy is in the dumper and people are laying low. Virtually all forms of busniess are feeling the crunch and I'm sure NHRA is as well, along with the racers who attend these races. Personally, I have no desire to race against crate-motor Stockers. I have nothing against the concept, and it is a cool idea that works for IHRA, but NHRA doesn't need it. When the economy rebounds the car counts will come back. If you spend the same time and effort building a crate-motor Stock engine, how is it cheaper? What would be cool is a heads-up crate-motor class with each manufacturer supplying one small-block and one big-block naturally aspirated engine (two weight breaks) using the current Stocker rules format. With only a 6 engines to police (Mopar, Chevy and Ford) NHRA (or whatever the sanction) could closely monitor the cars. Winner and runner up remove a head after each race and use a scope to look at the bottom end. __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

09-19-2009, 06:21 AM	#32
THE LEGEND VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fayetteville, n.c. Posts: 1,411 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Z-MAX car count Evan, IHRA had that class they called it TOP STOCK. We see how that worked out for them.LOL I agree with the cost thing. A competitive crate motor engine will cost as much as a competitive trditional engine. Chip

09-19-2009, 06:41 AM	#34
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count NHRA has crate motor cars... they're called Cobra Jets and Challengers... Not to mention all the superceded parts, fuel cells, wheelie bars, CSR/Meziere water pumps. -=shrug=- It is what it is. Just pickin! Like I said, doesn't matter. I've always said, "Tell me what the rules of the playground are, and I'll go play on it." Hope the weather holds off today. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-19-2009, 07:11 AM	#35
FOR REAL Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 205 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count just have to say .i love it. **** nhra.would love to see them fold. asta

09-19-2009, 07:17 AM	#36
Gary Smith Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 820 Likes: 9 Liked 132 Times in 30 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count The economy theory makes sense...but only to a certain extent. With low car counts, why would NHRA turn away those with "money in hand" over not having a lousy grade point??? Do the powers at NHRA deem rules are more important than where they get the money from? Just another self inflicted bullet wound to themselves IMHO. __________________ Gary Smith "another broke racer spectating"

09-19-2009, 09:54 AM	#38
RJ Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 248 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count NHRA "stock?"/IHRA "crate stock?" - what is stock anymore? crank - yes aftermarket rods - no aftermarket pistons - no lightweight pins - no $400+ rings - no billet cam - no ceramic lifters - no big O.D. pushrods - no 500lb+ valve springs - no lightweight retainers - no aftermarket valves - no bogus ports - no any valve job - no bogus chambers - no bogus manifold runners - no Just an example about how "not stock" NHRA or IHRA stock eliminator really is anyway. After 1985 or so calling anything stock is a moot point. I say let the rest of crates in, the CJ's and Challengers really are anyway. Last edited by RJ; 09-19-2009 at 09:59 AM.

09-19-2009, 10:18 AM	#40
RJ Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 248 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Z-MAX car count Alan. the crates have specs like anything else, so tech is tech. Just saying it might be a good idea to have the option, if the crates don't show up, there's no harm done. I left a bunch of stuff off the list (relocated lifter bores, relocated intake ports, etc.) stock has been long gone for a long time. As I'm sure you know, if you're not thinking like a comp racer when you're building a stocker these days, you are going to be slowwwwwwww.