Frequency of double redlights - Page 4

GarysZ24 · 10-07-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Ed wrote, "I think the guys wanting it will be suprised at how little it actually helps them."

Ed,
It's not a matter of "helping" anybody.

It's a matter of giving both cars an equal chance to red light... PERIOD. That's all it does.

I fail to see what's wrong with that scenario, or, why anyone who values sportsmanship and fair play could object to it. NOBODY has an advantage with this system. NOBODY.

That's not true with the system now in place.

This double red light system will work effectively to level the playing field, whether it's a race between an AA/SA car and an A/SA car, a AA/SA car and a W/SA car, or a V/SA car and a W/SA car.

It plays no favorites.

Bill,

Didn't we debate some of these other racers on this topic earlier this season? I'm with you (again) on this one, and I'm glad that a faster class racer (Michael Pliska) appears to agree with us, because the faster class cars already have the "everything is in front of them" advantage, so why should they sustain this advantage too??? I hope this is for real and not just a figment of my imagination!!!

Now, another thing I hope they change is the reading height of the timing lights that are tripped by the nose of a car under hard braking (newer cars with ground effects skirting, or other devices?), so that the finish line will be tripped by the same device that the starting line is tripped by...THE TIRES!!!

Casper68 · 10-07-2009, 09:07 PM

What about the distraction of the slower car leaving ?....I think the 'first or worst' is fine. If I have to wait while the slower car leaves, then why give the slower car the 'advantage' of maybe distracting me into a redlight....?

Hugh Meeks · 10-07-2009, 09:14 PM

Mark - this weekend @ Memphis, Bob Dennis was -.007 red just before Bones lit it up -.006 red. And then yours against A.D. just before that.... Both first red were worse.

Got the new bullet in yet?

Hugh

bill dedman · 10-07-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper68

What about the distraction of the slower car leaving ?....I think the 'first or worst' is fine. If I have to wait while the slower car leaves, then why give the slower car the 'advantage' of maybe distracting me into a redlight....?

You can talk 'til the world looks level about advantages that slower cars have, and the advantages that faster cars have, but those are usually not things that can be changed.

This is a system that CAN be changed, so NOBODY has the advantage in this area.

You can't say, "Let's keep this advantage for the faster car, because the slower car blah, blah, blah..."
because for every advantage you can name for slower car, there's a matching one for the faster car.

And, this change is not just going to affect cars on a "slow-vs.-fast-car" basis; it will affect ANY two cars that are not running heads-up. When a V/SA 6-cylinder car spots a W/SA 4-cylinder Pinto wagon, it will apply to both of them, and so on up the board.

The ONLY car that won't USUALLY have a chance to benefit from this will be an AA/S car, although it was recently pointed out to me that DRC reported that an A car spotted a AA car at a race, so the AA car was the first to leave, and could have been the beneficiary of a worse red light by the second-to-leave A car, if they'd both red-lit.

That's an anomaly, but proves that at some time or other EVERY car could benefit from this change.

bill dedman · 10-07-2009, 09:59 PM

Gary,
I agree that the finish line lights need some attention, for the reasons you pointed out.

How would you attack this problem?

Ideas????

bill dedman · 10-07-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Looking back at my log book for '89 I found that most of my redlights, about 60% , were from leaving early to catch a slower car that did NOT redlight. I guess the were "anxious redlights".

I believe this is a non-problem....that's my opinion, shoot me.

JimR

BANG!!!

What if your race car were a W/SA Pinto wagon with a C-3 transmission, that would result in you being the first car to leave 100-percent of the time?

That would mean that any time you red lit, your opponent would never have a chance to red light.

Never....

Can you logically justify a system that unecessarily removes your opponent from jeopardy (red light variety) just because you left early? You have deprived him of his chance to red light.

He has no way to return the favor... Nothing he can do will remove you from the jeopardy of a red light.

Do you think you'd still see this situation as a "non-problem" if that were the case?

Does that seem fair to you?

treessavoy · 10-07-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

BANG!!!

What if your race car were a W/SA Pinto wagon with a C-3 transmission, that would result in you being the first car to leave 100-percent of the time?

That would mean that any time you red lit, your opponent would never have a chance to red light.

Never....

Can you logically justify a system that unecessarily removes your opponent from jeopardy (red light variety) just because you left early? You have deprived him of his chance to red light.

He has no way to return the favor... Nothing he can do will remove you from the jeopardy of a red light.

Do you think you'd still see this situation as a "non-problem" if that were the case?

Does that seem fair to you?

Bill,

I'm wounded but not dead.

I have been in the slow shoes when I raced a slant six Valiant. When I say it's a non-problem I'm looking at the frequency of such situations. Is this such a big problem that it needs fixing? If so then use the blinders, which won't work at night because the glare will tell the other guy what color your lights are.

If this is a big problem then let's lobby for a change, but what will the NHRA say ....."It's not a big problem".

Just trying to be practical,

JimR

Ellis V. Buth · 10-07-2009, 11:16 PM

What if your race car were a W/SA Pinto wagon with a C-3 transmission, that would result in you being the first car to leave 100-percent of the time? (quoted from Bill Dedman a few posts ago)

Who in their right mind would race a W/SA Pinto wagon? LOL. We have a W/S and leave first 99.9% of the time (unless we race Polhill, Seibenick, or the occasional W/SA such as Philley, Nivans, or my uncles old Pinto Wagon in Minnesota). I dont know if the rule would help us as much versus say a Cobra Jet, but it would definitely help cars that are clustered closer together where there is no time to see a red in the other lane (people argue that if you are focused on your side of the tree you dont see the red light, but i think against a car 4 or even 6 seconds slower than you that you can see the red light and still re-focus before your tree comes down) I know I always could in my junior dragster.

Ellis V. Buth
1976 Pinto Station Wagon W/S

bill dedman · 10-07-2009, 11:50 PM

Ellis,

No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line.
No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line.
No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line.

Running the car that you do, and after my having posted that sentence on this forum at LEAST ten times, in weeks, months and YEARS past, I figured that YOU, of all people, would have seen it...

The computer will not show a red light in ~either~ lane until after both cars have launched, and the computer has compared "lights."

Only then, will a win light and a red light come on, IF there was, in fact, a (red) light in either lane.

Hope this helps...

bill dedman · 10-07-2009, 11:56 PM

Jim, better get that bullet wound taken care of.... don't let it get infected!!!

RE: "I have been in the slow shoes when I raced a slant six Valiant. When I say it's a non-problem I'm looking at the frequency of such situations."

You are surely right, in that, this double red light wouldn't happen very often at all...

But, it WILL happen, and could happen in the final round for Stock Eliminator at the U.S. Nationals....

I'd sure hate to lose that one to a red bulb that was a lesser-inftaction than that faster car's (red) bulb in the other lane. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time...

No, it won't happen often, but since it's such an easy "fix," I can't see any reason NOT to fix it. They fixed the "first car to breakout loses".... a long time ago.
Time to fix this, too.

Just tryin' to be fair...

10-07-2009, 09:07 PM	#32
Casper68 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 44 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights What about the distraction of the slower car leaving ?....I think the 'first or worst' is fine. If I have to wait while the slower car leaves, then why give the slower car the 'advantage' of maybe distracting me into a redlight....?

10-07-2009, 09:14 PM	#33
Hugh Meeks Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Montgomery, Al Posts: 61 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights Mark - this weekend @ Memphis, Bob Dennis was -.007 red just before Bones lit it up -.006 red. And then yours against A.D. just before that.... Both first red were worse. Got the new bullet in yet? Hugh

10-07-2009, 09:59 PM	#35
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights Gary, I agree that the finish line lights need some attention, for the reasons you pointed out. How would you attack this problem? Ideas???? __________________ Bill

10-07-2009, 11:16 PM	#38
Ellis V. Buth Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Warrensburg, IL Posts: 32 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights What if your race car were a W/SA Pinto wagon with a C-3 transmission, that would result in you being the first car to leave 100-percent of the time? (quoted from Bill Dedman a few posts ago) Who in their right mind would race a W/SA Pinto wagon? LOL. We have a W/S and leave first 99.9% of the time (unless we race Polhill, Seibenick, or the occasional W/SA such as Philley, Nivans, or my uncles old Pinto Wagon in Minnesota). I dont know if the rule would help us as much versus say a Cobra Jet, but it would definitely help cars that are clustered closer together where there is no time to see a red in the other lane (people argue that if you are focused on your side of the tree you dont see the red light, but i think against a car 4 or even 6 seconds slower than you that you can see the red light and still re-focus before your tree comes down) I know I always could in my junior dragster. Ellis V. Buth 1976 Pinto Station Wagon W/S

10-07-2009, 11:50 PM	#39
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights Ellis, No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line. No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line. No red llight will come on until after BOTH cars have left the line. Running the car that you do, and after my having posted that sentence on this forum at LEAST ten times, in weeks, months and YEARS past, I figured that YOU, of all people, would have seen it... The computer will not show a red light in ~either~ lane until after both cars have launched, and the computer has compared "lights." Only then, will a win light and a red light come on, IF there was, in fact, a (red) light in either lane. Hope this helps... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 10-08-2009 at 12:00 AM.

10-07-2009, 11:56 PM	#40
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Frequency of double redlights Jim, better get that bullet wound taken care of.... don't let it get infected!!! RE: "I have been in the slow shoes when I raced a slant six Valiant. When I say it's a non-problem I'm looking at the frequency of such situations." You are surely right, in that, this double red light wouldn't happen very often at all... But, it WILL happen, and could happen in the final round for Stock Eliminator at the U.S. Nationals.... I'd sure hate to lose that one to a red bulb that was a lesser-inftaction than that faster car's (red) bulb in the other lane. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time... No, it won't happen often, but since it's such an easy "fix," I can't see any reason NOT to fix it. They fixed the "first car to breakout loses".... a long time ago. Time to fix this, too. Just tryin' to be fair... __________________ Bill