Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers

[PONTIAC'S REVENGE]

Gentlemen,
These are all good arguments, I think eventually everything will be aftermarket. Whether the factorys come up with it or not it will have to be that way or the old combos will die out. This will insure progression of our sport and also the popularity. Just like the GT cars being introduced to super stock. This kept the manufacturers interested and gave us a identity with the kids coming along. Mixed with the early engines is was a good strategy.

It also kept Super Stock from being called a nostalgia race all the time. Not that nostalgia races are bad but I dont think all of us want to be known as that. I think it has help keep us in the National events instead of NHRA pushing us to all points meets. IT SELLS! U cant beat indentification for car promotion. Half these kids are moving to import wizbangers we call them. What a shame!!

I saw a great matchup with James Caro with his new hemi powered modified GT Stratus against a 69 Cuda or Dart somewhere cant rmbr who but it was way cool!! The announcers could have really exploited that on the starting line but they didn't. New hemi n old hemi!!!!!

NHRA has made it clear to us that they dont like racers to have to spend exorbitant prices for heads just to run a favorite combination because of cost. They would rather us spend the money with there sponsors partners and traveling to enter races, my guess is.

NHRA is very strick about gaining performance advantages although it does happen. For example Lynn spent almost 5 years trying to get the aluminum heads approve because of his super duty heads are so rare and expensive. NHRA refused us the aluminum on this motor combination because his combo was 102cc combustion chamber and the edlebrocks were 85cc. The official said they weren't gonna give us that much chamber to "play with". So he spend all that time and may have to switch combos which i know he cant afford with two boys in college and a blond wife.

Your thoughts?
Stacy McCarty
GTAA

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC'S REVENGE

Gentlemen,
These are all good arguments, I think eventually everything will be aftermarket. Whether the factorys come up with it or not it will have to be that way or the old combos will die out. This will insure progression of our sport and also the popularity. Just like the GT cars being introduced to super stock. This kept the manufacturers interested and gave us a identity with the kids coming along. Mixed with the early engines is was a good strategy.

It also kept Super Stock from being called a nostalgia race all the time. Not that nostalgia races are bad but I dont think all of us want to be know as that. I think it has help keep us in the National events instead of NHRA pushing us to all points meets. IT SELLS! U can beat indentification for car promotion. Half these kids are moving to import wizbangers we call them. What a shame!!

I saw a great matchup with James Caro with his new hemi powered modified GT Stratus against a 69 Cuda or Dart somewhere cant rmbr who but it was way cool!! The announcers could have really exploited that on the starting line but they didn't. New hemi n old hemi!!!!!

NHRA has made it clear to us that they dont like racers to have to spend exorbitant prices for heads just to run a favorite combination because of cost. They would rather us spend the money with there sponsors partners and traveling to enter races, my guess is.

NHRA is very strick about gaining performance advantages although it does happen. For example Lynn spent almost 5 years trying to get the aluminum heads approve because of his super duty heads are so rare and expensive. NHRA refused us the aluminum on this motor combination because his combo was 102cc combustion chamber and the edlebrocks were 85cc. The official said they weren't gonna give us that much chamber to "play with". So he spend all that time and may have to switch combos which i know he cant afford with two boys in college and a blond wife.

Your thoughts?
Stacy McCarty
GTAA

Get rid of the wife and let the boys work their way thru college ? Just kidding before anyone goes off. Lynn knows me pretty well. Besides getting rid of the wife would cost more than keeping her.....LOL. OH....you mean the alum. heads.........Why cant Edelbrock cast the heads with 102 and larger combustion chambers? I seems to me it would be an easy fix for a company casting so many different head combinations. They even started casting 409 heads so whats so hard about it for a company already doing this type of work? Then you could re sumit the request and they should get the stamp of approval. Tell Lynn I said hello.
Terry

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Get rid of the wife and let the boys work their way thru college ? Just kidding before anyone goes off. Lynn knows me pretty well. Besides getting rid of the wife would cost more than keeping her.....LOL. OH....you mean the alum. heads.........Why cant Edelbrock cast the heads with 102 and larger combustion chambers? I seems to me it would be an easy fix for a company casting so many different head combinations. They even started casting 409 heads so whats so hard about it for a company already doing this type of work? Then you could re sumit the request and they should get the stamp of approval. Tell Lynn I said hello.
Terry

Well been there done that with calling about recasting a head with the correct runner volume. We went through that with Ed for about 2yrs.


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

[Ronnie Scott]

Can the World Products 4360 be used as a replacement for the 441 head 250/290 horse combination?
Thanks

[James L Miller]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC'S REVENGE

NHRA refused us the aluminum on this motor combination because his combo was 102cc combustion chamber and the edlebrocks were 85cc. The official said they weren't gonna give us that much chamber to "play with".

Since the Pontiacs had machined chambers from the factory, can Edelbrock just CNC the chamber to get closer to the 102cc chamber? I don't know how much material is in there to get it all the way to 102cc, but maybe if they can get it to 95cc then add HP to compensate, that would seem to be a good compromise.

[Aaron Keown]

Being in this buisness I can definately see both sides of this argument,and both have valid points.One thing is for sure,if N.H.R.A. ever did decide to do something like this they need to give everyone a couple of years notice.
We have built a few engines that can run factory heads or take the 5 h.p. hit and run the world/dart iron head and I probably don't have to tell you which one everyone picks,and who can blame them.My point is as long is there is a h.p. advantage to the factory heads people will continue to build and run them.
The thing that really sucks when these kind of things come up is that while you make things more reliable for one group of racers ,you force a whole other group to make the decision to stop racing.Do this kind of thig enough times and you end up with nobody to race.
On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

[69ss/rs]

Originally Posted by Aaron Keown

Being in this buisness I can definately see both sides of this argument,and both have valid points.One thing is for sure,if N.H.R.A. ever did decide to do something like this they need to give everyone a couple of years notice.
We have built a few engines that can run factory heads or take the 5 h.p. hit and run the world/dart iron head and I probably don't have to tell you which one everyone picks,and who can blame them.My point is as long is there is a h.p. advantage to the factory heads people will continue to build and run them.
The thing that really sucks when these kind of things come up is that while you make things more reliable for one group of racers ,you force a whole other group to make the decision to stop racing.Do this kind of thig enough times and you end up with nobody to race.
On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

Aaron, you are missing my point; nobody is trying to stop the guys that want to spend the money to find the old heads and then take the risk that they will hold up after all the welding and grinding, because they think that they are getting a HP break. But why not give the rest of the other guys a choice. I know you guys build a lot of older model small blocks, so what do you do when you can't find those heads anymore,tell the guy to build a newer motor combo or quit racing? They say that there are replacement heads for some of the combos available from dart or motown, so how is that any different than the aluminum head except for the material the head is made from. My point is that NHRA had better do something or you WILL begin to lose the 60&70 engine combos.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Aaron Keown

On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

Something to think about for sure..
I dont think the "eye for eye" approach really works here..how much i hate seing "All Edelbrock" Ford 390's with deep pans)in stock .(how on earth could all this ever been approved?)..the ones that allready are in the system we can do nothing about but in the future i would rather see approving parts done with care depending on the(real) need..rather than acrross the board just to satisfy the hunger for performance that some have..

p.s.The Chevy B.B Head you have to angle mill and do all sorts of things to get it legal..so i dont see why the Pontiac issue would be any different in that case..

[PONTIAC'S REVENGE]

Originally Posted by James L Miller

Since the Pontiacs had machined chambers from the factory, can Edelbrock just CNC the chamber to get closer to the 102cc chamber? I don't know how much material is in there to get it all the way to 102cc, but maybe if they can get it to 95cc then add HP to compensate, that would seem to be a good compromise.

Yes,
I think thats the step but then you cross the line on how to shape it and where would u hit water and how it would have to be welded. They deemed it too much of an advantage to play with the shape.

When you have a 9.5 to 1 engine I dont think it matters that much anyway. There are way more LIBERAL scenario's out there than that but I think there point is once you do it for one then you set a precedent for them all. I think a lot of these are mistakes like the 400 sbc head for years.

The officials are professionally careful in my opinion, so change come very slowly. We may get consideration as the aftermarket wave progresses. Just the diverse opinions of this thread are an example of what these guys go through with letters and phonecalls everyday.

We do need to keep the old combos affordable and competitive. It seems to be increasingly difficult to expect the factory's to maintain this. The aftermarket playing field will take over...but gradually. Not as a advantage medium but a survival one.

Headn to Vegas!!

Stacy
GTAA