Index Change

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

All of that is EXACTLY why Stock has become so prohibitively expensive. So, your solution is to make all of that legal, that way we can move on to something else that we can make legal because NHRA doesn't want to look for it? And that is your plan to "save" Stock? Seriously? You cannot "save" Stock by making Stock into something else.

What's your fix? - all that stuff and more is bogus anyway, I suggested what I did because the only way to stop it, is to let everyone have it.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

What's your fix? - all that stuff and more is bogus anyway, I suggested what I did because the only way to stop it, is to let everyone have it.

By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

NHRA is not going to "fix Stock, nor are they going to "save" Stock. Or Super Stock for that matter. If the classes are to be saved, it will be by the racers. Whether or not they want it bad enough remains to be seen. By what can be read here, the answer to that is "no".

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

[SuperStockDodge]

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?[/QUOTE]

And where is this "updated" rule change for everyone to see???

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

They'll still consider Stock a problem. They do not want to tech for Stock at all. You're still having them tech with your "solution" and they don't want to. So your "solution" still requires them to tech, which they do not want to do, and only serves to further dilute the class.

Nice pun on the clutchless deal. As to my thoughts on clutchless transmissions in Super Stock, I'm not really in favor of it, although I have a couple of older friends it will help. The truth is, we all know people are using clutch assisted transmissions like a clutchless box. How do you fight it? That goes back to the rest of the problem with NHRA.

I'm not looking to "turn back the clock", as nice as that might be. It probably is neither possible nor feasible, as things stand. But we can make an effort to stop the progression. If we don't, we might just as well pack it in now and go bracket racing. If you keep diluting it, we might just as well never open the hood anymore.

[SS Engine Guy]

The whole idea of "enhancements", and loosening of the rules starts when you are afraid to enforce the rules. Instead of a year off it has been the fashion to write a rule revision making the illegal parts legal. That is the sign of influence. (read that however you want).

The whole basis of S/SS has always been to take the rules and work within them to see how fast you can go. Not change the rules to pacify someone or some group who intimidates you.

Two "groups" have been solely responsible for this. Neither group can work on their own stuff enough to get under the index much less be fast. However, these two groups may have not been able to accomplish what they have if it weren't for the added support of the "hero worshipers" that think that anything their heros do is right.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

[Billy Nees]

Hey Art, if you're going to allow the earlier cars ported heads what do I get? Ported heads don't do me any good! Can I have my choice between a big superceded carb or nitrous?