all the talk on how to save class racing....

Superfan1 · 01-11-2010, 11:16 AM

SS&DI was the best drag racing magazine ever. I am fortunate to have every issue that was published, and I still spend quite a bit of time rereading them.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, CT

rustang · 01-11-2010, 12:59 PM

I'm an outsider here...but I currently race with the NMCA in Mean Street. (well I guess let's say "try" to race

)
Why couldn't you take a heads up class with similar rules and integrate it into Stock Eliminator? One thing I think it may have going for it is more sponsorship appeal, since there's alot of aftermarket stuff on these cars. The NMCA prostock class might integrate well as a Super Stock class too.
http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules.html

Mark Yacavone · 01-11-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustang

I'm an outsider here...but I currently race with the NMCA in Mean Street. (well I guess let's say "try" to race

)
Why couldn't you take a heads up class with similar rules and integrate it into Stock Eliminator? One thing I think it may have going for it is more sponsorship appeal, since there's alot of aftermarket stuff on these cars. The NMCA prostock class might integrate well as a Super Stock class too.
http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules.html

Too much tech (and expense)

NHRA doesn't have the budget for it. They even had to re-neg on Gold Cards this year.

rustang · 01-11-2010, 02:46 PM

Is that anymore tech than the current classes? Or is reducing tech the NHRA's goal?

Jim Wahl · 01-11-2010, 03:20 PM

I think NHRA tried a similar economy class back in the day....... it was called Super Modified. Jim

bill dedman · 01-11-2010, 03:31 PM

The things that keep someone like myself from running a class-legal stocker are the cumulative total of many years of "enhancements" that "take the goody" out of running a car in the Stock classes.

NHRA has systematically destroyed nearly all of the positive aspects of what used to make it not only worthwhile to race a car in Stock, but financially reasonable, in terms of what you might win vs. your payout for all expenses.

I don't know the exact chronology, nor all of the many things that have transpired to make running a Stocker less of an exciting endeavor and more of a chore, but a few of the ones I can readily bring to mind are:

1. Increasing entry fees, insurance surcharges, cutting down on the number of people the entry fee covers (crew)

2. Allowing camshafts that encourage high-rpm operation beyond what truly stock valvetrain components can support, and the expensive, modified "hydraulic" lifters that will work at these elevated rpms. Stock duration should have never gone away.

3. The AHFS, a system so badly flawed and slow to act that it is the laughing stock of knowledgeable racers throughout the Eliminator. Except, it's not funny...

4. The advent of "crate motor" manufacturer cars such as these new Ford "Modified Production" cars disguied as Stockers, with NHRA's blesssing... and the competition-destroying, ultra-low HP factors that come with them.

5. The sad, and unfortunate, lessening of the importance of Class national records. Once, it was a badge of honor to be able to write "NHRA NATIONAL RECORD HOLDER" on your car, and was worth money in product endorsements, and I think NHRA even rewarded new record holders with a cash prize, but I'm not sure about that.
Now, hardly anyone actively pursues national records. My apologies to those who do; I applaud you!

6. Reducing the importance of Stock Eliminator to the point that certain national events don't even HAVE Stock Eliminator contested.

7. Contingency payouts have been reduced to a fraction of their totals, of years ago.

8. Disallowing cars built before 1960 was a huge mistake, and keeps some all-time crowd favorites ('57 Chevys of all descriptions, for example) home in the garage when they could be thrilling their fans... because NHRA is too lazy and apathetic to classsify and police the older cars any more.

9. Failing to police the ubiquitous, and infamous $5,000.00 cylinder heads, without which, your Stocker is almost guaranteed to be an "also ran" for class...

10. The payout situation for Eliminator wins is an insult to the racers. Over the years, the amount you earn from NHRA for winning Stock has not grown with the economy (inflation,) and years ago, when it still wasn't all that much money, contingency money did a pretty good job of propping up the NHRA's sad offering, but now, that's not gonna happen...

11. Making Stock Eliminator, with its gorgeous, show-car paint jobs, flawless, block-sanded bodies, and meticulously maintained engine compartments, and yes, IMPRESSIVE performances (not the least of which feature bumper-dragging wheelstands) the BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING!!!

When have you seen a TV ad, or an advertisement in a car magazine promoting NHRA Stocker racing, with pictures and glowing prose???

They (NHRA) have let grass-roots racing at the national level, wither on the vine.... and it has SO MUCH to offer... or, did.

Corporate greed is at the bottom of 90-percent of this; having people who run the ($$$) show that have never made a trip down the drag strip in anything, much less a 9-second Stocker...

I don't see it changing until those bozos leave the stage.

X-TECH MAN · 01-11-2010, 04:08 PM

I believe that Bill has it said correctly here. Dave Boertman won over $10,000 for stock eliminator at Indy in 1971 using an engine that probably cost around $350 to duplicate in 1971 in a $300 dollar body. How much in todays (2010) money would that $10,000 be. The cost of building a car like his or say someone like Boby Warrens Chev 2 combo vs the potential profit margin? No "enhanced heads" lite wt. trans., killer valve springs, expensive lifters, etc. $70,000 to $100,000 "kit cars" not to mention Toter Homes and stacker trailers. Oh well.....yesterday is just a memory.

bill dedman · 01-11-2010, 04:21 PM

Terry,

According to the online cost-of-living calculator I use, (http://tinyurl.com/b2jacs)

$10,000.00 in 1971 is equal to $52,938.27 in 2009.

Thanks for bringing that up...

Chris "drooze" Wertman · 01-11-2010, 06:39 PM

I dont want to say this lest I start a "flame war" I think many will agree, and that was the point of the post I responded to.

It would SEEM to me, the poster who talked about $350 engine etc. Is not only correct, and my idea of Stock Eliminator was about 25 years out of Date, same with the Old Mans....He ran C Modified Production..... but whats STRANGE.....is it seems to cost damm near as much to compete in stock as it does TAFC ?!? The car , setting up to do a year on the road.....It can be done "on the cheap" stock but I dont see how in A or AA....could be wrong....but wow...

IF I would have know how much it really cost I would have pushed another direction for us, something in a heads up class......but were here now....no use crying. Sally Forth !

Tom keedle · 01-11-2010, 07:23 PM

i wanna see nekked pictures of the "sally forth"....

anyway, what i was getting at about the magazines is, aside from some usefull info and ads, there's nothing to grab a kids' attention out there.
i DO miss ss/di and bracket racing usa but with both of them gone (for years now), what's a guy to read in the crapper?
no, i'm not gonna buy a laptop just to make smell bad...

01-11-2010, 11:16 AM	#1
Superfan1 VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bridgeport,CT. Posts: 1,993 Likes: 1,666 Liked 2,638 Times in 440 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... SS&DI was the best drag racing magazine ever. I am fortunate to have every issue that was published, and I still spend quite a bit of time rereading them. Bill Seabrooks - superfan1 Bridgeport, CT

01-11-2010, 12:59 PM	#2
rustang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... I'm an outsider here...but I currently race with the NMCA in Mean Street. (well I guess let's say "try" to race ) Why couldn't you take a heads up class with similar rules and integrate it into Stock Eliminator? One thing I think it may have going for it is more sponsorship appeal, since there's alot of aftermarket stuff on these cars. The NMCA prostock class might integrate well as a Super Stock class too. http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules.html

01-11-2010, 02:46 PM	#4
rustang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... Is that anymore tech than the current classes? Or is reducing tech the NHRA's goal?

01-11-2010, 03:20 PM	#5
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,844 Likes: 669 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... I think NHRA tried a similar economy class back in the day....... it was called Super Modified. Jim __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 NHRA D2 National Open Stock Champion 1982 NHRA D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association.

01-11-2010, 03:31 PM	#6
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... The things that keep someone like myself from running a class-legal stocker are the cumulative total of many years of "enhancements" that "take the goody" out of running a car in the Stock classes. NHRA has systematically destroyed nearly all of the positive aspects of what used to make it not only worthwhile to race a car in Stock, but financially reasonable, in terms of what you might win vs. your payout for all expenses. I don't know the exact chronology, nor all of the many things that have transpired to make running a Stocker less of an exciting endeavor and more of a chore, but a few of the ones I can readily bring to mind are: 1. Increasing entry fees, insurance surcharges, cutting down on the number of people the entry fee covers (crew) 2. Allowing camshafts that encourage high-rpm operation beyond what truly stock valvetrain components can support, and the expensive, modified "hydraulic" lifters that will work at these elevated rpms. Stock duration should have never gone away. 3. The AHFS, a system so badly flawed and slow to act that it is the laughing stock of knowledgeable racers throughout the Eliminator. Except, it's not funny... 4. The advent of "crate motor" manufacturer cars such as these new Ford "Modified Production" cars disguied as Stockers, with NHRA's blesssing... and the competition-destroying, ultra-low HP factors that come with them. 5. The sad, and unfortunate, lessening of the importance of Class national records. Once, it was a badge of honor to be able to write "NHRA NATIONAL RECORD HOLDER" on your car, and was worth money in product endorsements, and I think NHRA even rewarded new record holders with a cash prize, but I'm not sure about that. Now, hardly anyone actively pursues national records. My apologies to those who do; I applaud you! 6. Reducing the importance of Stock Eliminator to the point that certain national events don't even HAVE Stock Eliminator contested. 7. Contingency payouts have been reduced to a fraction of their totals, of years ago. 8. Disallowing cars built before 1960 was a huge mistake, and keeps some all-time crowd favorites ('57 Chevys of all descriptions, for example) home in the garage when they could be thrilling their fans... because NHRA is too lazy and apathetic to classsify and police the older cars any more. 9. Failing to police the ubiquitous, and infamous $5,000.00 cylinder heads, without which, your Stocker is almost guaranteed to be an "also ran" for class... 10. The payout situation for Eliminator wins is an insult to the racers. Over the years, the amount you earn from NHRA for winning Stock has not grown with the economy (inflation,) and years ago, when it still wasn't all that much money, contingency money did a pretty good job of propping up the NHRA's sad offering, but now, that's not gonna happen... 11. Making Stock Eliminator, with its gorgeous, show-car paint jobs, flawless, block-sanded bodies, and meticulously maintained engine compartments, and yes, IMPRESSIVE performances (not the least of which feature bumper-dragging wheelstands) the BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING!!! When have you seen a TV ad, or an advertisement in a car magazine promoting NHRA Stocker racing, with pictures and glowing prose??? They (NHRA) have let grass-roots racing at the national level, wither on the vine.... and it has SO MUCH to offer... or, did. Corporate greed is at the bottom of 90-percent of this; having people who run the ($$$) show that have never made a trip down the drag strip in anything, much less a 9-second Stocker... I don't see it changing until those bozos leave the stage. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 01-11-2010 at 03:56 PM.

01-11-2010, 04:08 PM	#7
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... I believe that Bill has it said correctly here. Dave Boertman won over $10,000 for stock eliminator at Indy in 1971 using an engine that probably cost around $350 to duplicate in 1971 in a $300 dollar body. How much in todays (2010) money would that $10,000 be. The cost of building a car like his or say someone like Boby Warrens Chev 2 combo vs the potential profit margin? No "enhanced heads" lite wt. trans., killer valve springs, expensive lifters, etc. $70,000 to $100,000 "kit cars" not to mention Toter Homes and stacker trailers. Oh well.....yesterday is just a memory.

01-11-2010, 04:21 PM	#8
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... Terry, According to the online cost-of-living calculator I use, (http://tinyurl.com/b2jacs) $10,000.00 in 1971 is equal to $52,938.27 in 2009. Thanks for bringing that up... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 01-11-2010 at 04:23 PM.

01-11-2010, 06:39 PM	#9
Chris "drooze" Wertman VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Barberton Ohio Posts: 1,114 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... I dont want to say this lest I start a "flame war" I think many will agree, and that was the point of the post I responded to. It would SEEM to me, the poster who talked about $350 engine etc. Is not only correct, and my idea of Stock Eliminator was about 25 years out of Date, same with the Old Mans....He ran C Modified Production..... but whats STRANGE.....is it seems to cost damm near as much to compete in stock as it does TAFC ?!? The car , setting up to do a year on the road.....It can be done "on the cheap" stock but I dont see how in A or AA....could be wrong....but wow... IF I would have know how much it really cost I would have pushed another direction for us, something in a heads up class......but were here now....no use crying. Sally Forth !

01-11-2010, 07:23 PM	#10
Tom keedle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berthoud, Coloraduh Posts: 695 Likes: 13 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: all the talk on how to save class racing.... i wanna see nekked pictures of the "sally forth".... anyway, what i was getting at about the magazines is, aside from some usefull info and ads, there's nothing to grab a kids' attention out there. i DO miss ss/di and bracket racing usa but with both of them gone (for years now), what's a guy to read in the crapper? no, i'm not gonna buy a laptop just to make smell bad...