How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St

voltdr · 08-17-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperStocks@LionsDragStrip

Lower the indexes and dump all the electronic rubbish. S/C should lower the index to at least 8.50, I would like it to get down to 7.90s. Super Gas is so boring, lower the indexes to at least 9.50. Ever see the fans hit the exits when these two classes come out? I know I'm one of 'em as it has been ruined by the gadgets.

SuperStocks@LionsDragStrip

I agree. 8.50/9.50/10.50. No delay boxes or timers. Go to a full tree. Leave the trans brakes in place. I started racing in SG when the fast cars were 140+ mph and the racing was close. We use to slow the cars down with ballast. Very effective. Remember when SG used to qualify 64 cars prior to first round. Here's the problem. Brodix, Dart and similar performance companies would loose revenue from no one needing to buy 632 CI engines. Now that Pandoras box has been opened, it's too hard to close it.

danny waters sr · 08-18-2010, 05:38 AM

I always thought a nascar type restrictor plate under carb would be more entertaining than t/stops. At least they would be a steady pace down track without stopping and going. I think if someone wanted to spend a little time they could perfect this method. I think you could make a spacer for under the carb with a slot kinda like a cd player has and # the disc and keep changing them til the car is dialed in. These discs could be numbered like a jet for carbs. If anyone does do this remember you saw it on here and i want my royalties($$$$$$) for this idea.

BKSG1198 · 08-18-2010, 06:51 AM

I think all the throttle stop BS has ruined these classes. Take it from someone who has one of the slowest S/G cars in the US (112mph on the stop) but, even if we lowered the index and made the cars run a certain type of stop it will never draw the fans back. People are sooo brain washed with the NHRA coverage on ESPN and what "John Force is going to do next or what do the Forces do at the beach" that when the Pro's are done everyone wants to get to the pits to see if they can get their 15 minutes of fame on TV and go meet the drivers. Now I bet if NHRA does what NASCAR does and closes the pits down to the public and you have a pass to get in you might draw some more fans in the stands. I hate to say it but, this is for most if not all of the classes. I've brought friends to Divisional events and tried explaining Stk/SS to them and they basically tell me "That's too much thinking to do with this car runs this class cause of how it weighs and the cubic inc of the motor and what type of index it should run". I mean even Comp my friends have a hard time understanding but, of course they LOVE T/S cause of the type of cars that run it and how fast they go. We have to come to realize that we are the "Fill In's" at these events to help the Pro's get ready for the next round the only people who really care about us are people who used to drive or drive a S/G or Stock or Super Stk cars cause they can relate to it. Trust me I love watching Super Stk and Stk and I don't go hide once I'm done my S/G run. I just think we have to realize where we stand and not much can fix it cause as you say sponsors will lose money and the fans that did love watching us have moved on.

danny waters sr · 08-18-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKSG1198

I think all the throttle stop BS has ruined these classes. Take it from someone who has one of the slowest S/G cars in the US (112mph on the stop) but, even if we lowered the index and made the cars run a certain type of stop it will never draw the fans back. People are sooo brain washed with the NHRA coverage on ESPN and what "John Force is going to do next or what do the Forces do at the beach" that when the Pro's are done everyone wants to get to the pits to see if they can get their 15 minutes of fame on TV and go meet the drivers. Now I bet if NHRA does what NASCAR does and closes the pits down to the public and you have a pass to get in you might draw some more fans in the stands. I hate to say it but, this is for most if not all of the classes. I've brought friends to Divisional events and tried explaining Stk/SS to them and they basically tell me "That's too much thinking to do with this car runs this class cause of how it weighs and the cubic inc of the motor and what type of index it should run". I mean even Comp my friends have a hard time understanding but, of course they LOVE T/S cause of the type of cars that run it and how fast they go. We have to come to realize that we are the "Fill In's" at these events to help the Pro's get ready for the next round the only people who really care about us are people who used to drive or drive a S/G or Stock or Super Stk cars cause they can relate to it. Trust me I love watching Super Stk and Stk and I don't go hide once I'm done my S/G run. I just think we have to realize where we stand and not much can fix it cause as you say sponsors will lose money and the fans that did love watching us have moved on.

Drawing people in the stands is not the whole idea , getting them in the GATE is the ($$$) idea.

CBS · 08-18-2010, 08:43 AM

Ok guys.....this thread belongs in the 8.90-9.90 section...but..as you have stated....it is not a fan attraction....but trust me it's still a great class(8.90 or 9.90) to race....and the most heavily attended....so the people complaining aren't really the racers.....Don't get me wrong...I really like this super stock thing....but I still enjoy racing 9.90....it's fast ....and very competitive....and you can go 135 or 175 and still have a good chance to win...(and you don't have to work nearly as hard as you do in SS..more bs time).....The fans have to have time to buy a t shirt or hot dog anyway...lol..they are going to exit the stands for some class....

The SRAC is meeting about a proposed index change...but I doubt it will pass a vote....personally I don't really care what the index is....it's fine the way it is....but some of the guys look at it as a cost increase to lower the indexes....and we don't want that....

I feel like I can comment on the super class stuff as we have been racing it for a long time.......the Super Stock issues I stay out of until I am a little more of a veteran of the class.....

Don't we have enough issues to talk about in stock and super stock....without getting into 8.90 and 9.90....

What about those damn CJ's.....and the bad people that race them.....lol

Rock Haas
323 SS/DA
302 S/G

JJ3159 · 08-18-2010, 09:17 AM

i got it combine everything and make it a giant bracket race,oh wait they have those.or for stock get rid of everything j and up ,for super stock m and up .who enjoys 13 second class cars.

TCOONLY · 08-18-2010, 09:18 AM

X2 JJ. Cant agree more

Ed Fernandez · 08-18-2010, 10:06 AM

who enjoys 13 second class cars.[/QUOTE]

I do.

Mike Carr · 08-18-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ3159

i got it combine everything and make it a giant bracket race,oh wait they have those.or for stock get rid of everything j and up ,for super stock m and up .who enjoys 13 second class cars.

Many of us do for several reasons.

-Originality. Not everyone likes, nor wants to race, a 396 Camaro A/SA or run a SS/GT or Modified Cobalt/Cavalier. Cookie cutter cars = boring. I like a little more diversity. Pro Modified in it's early days was exciting. Now, not so much.

-The challenge. Taking a slower, lower powered, small-motored 4, 6 or 8 cylinder car and making it run quick, within a restrictive set of rules. How many people do you know that can take a '70 Nova with a 230 cid inline six-cylinder, using all OEM parts, and make it go mid 14's? I would dare say you could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. I dare say it's more of a challenge making a car like that run a second under than a BBC-powered Camaro.

-Budget. A lower-classed Stocker involves less maintanance and cost to race, compared to a big-block muscle car, seldom if ever spins the tires, almost never breaks anything. Plus, we get a "clean" tree.

There are probably more reasons, but you get the point. I know, slower cars aren't for everyone, but there are many of us that enjoy them.

B.D. (two time Top 10 IHRA Division 1 Stock points finisher in a high 17, low 18 second 110 cid 4 cylinder FWD four door Sunbird in HF/SA)

roseracing · 08-18-2010, 10:03 AM

We run 3 cars in the .90 classes. One in S/St (10.90), one in S/G (9.90), and one in S/C (8.90).

This is an interesting conversation. I would prefer to run with no TS in my S/St car because it barely runs the number anyway. When I first started, all I did was adjust my trottle linkage and I ended up with a R/U finish at my 2nd divisional race. I thought, man this will be great when I add the TS. I added the TS the next year and haven't made it to another final since. (We only race 6 divisionals a year).

Now the other 2 cars we have run well under the index, so a TS makes since. Plus it's easier on parts.

We don't think TS cars are fun to watch unless your watching at the finish line.

We would run whatever the rules dictate, TS or not.

We would prefer to run in Stk or S/Stk but the thought of a teardown keeps us away from that. We prefer to do all our work at home and not at the racetrack. In Cordova 2 weeks ago, we were pitted right next to tech. We watched as they tore down the gentlemen in the PT crusier turbo. That guy didn't even get to make his 1st round run (which was a bye, I think) because he didn't have it all back together yet. What fun is that?

I guess the same point will be made over and over. It's no fun watching the .90 cars because of the throttle stops. If we take them away and everyone runs essentially the same MPH - how is that more fun to watch? The only logical answer is to lower the indexes. How far to lower them - I don't know. Didn't Stk and/or S/Stk just take a 3 hundreths hit on all indexes this last winter? Why not do the same with the .90 classes? Obviously all the cars at events are faster than they were 20 years ago, but the only classes that haven't had an index change are the .90 classes. I wish NHRA would lower them to 10.00, 9.00, and 8.00. That would make it easier to watch and understand. Obviously, I would have to change a lot on my car to run those numbers, but I would do it.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Brad Rose
Rose Racing

08-18-2010, 05:38 AM	#2
danny waters sr VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: lagrange,nc Posts: 2,224 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St I always thought a nascar type restrictor plate under carb would be more entertaining than t/stops. At least they would be a steady pace down track without stopping and going. I think if someone wanted to spend a little time they could perfect this method. I think you could make a spacer for under the carb with a slot kinda like a cd player has and # the disc and keep changing them til the car is dialed in. These discs could be numbered like a jet for carbs. If anyone does do this remember you saw it on here and i want my royalties($$$$$$) for this idea. __________________ Danny Waters, Sr / 73 Duster "340"

08-18-2010, 06:51 AM	#3
BKSG1198 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vineland, NJ Posts: 2,644 Likes: 96 Liked 1,309 Times in 399 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St I think all the throttle stop BS has ruined these classes. Take it from someone who has one of the slowest S/G cars in the US (112mph on the stop) but, even if we lowered the index and made the cars run a certain type of stop it will never draw the fans back. People are sooo brain washed with the NHRA coverage on ESPN and what "John Force is going to do next or what do the Forces do at the beach" that when the Pro's are done everyone wants to get to the pits to see if they can get their 15 minutes of fame on TV and go meet the drivers. Now I bet if NHRA does what NASCAR does and closes the pits down to the public and you have a pass to get in you might draw some more fans in the stands. I hate to say it but, this is for most if not all of the classes. I've brought friends to Divisional events and tried explaining Stk/SS to them and they basically tell me "That's too much thinking to do with this car runs this class cause of how it weighs and the cubic inc of the motor and what type of index it should run". I mean even Comp my friends have a hard time understanding but, of course they LOVE T/S cause of the type of cars that run it and how fast they go. We have to come to realize that we are the "Fill In's" at these events to help the Pro's get ready for the next round the only people who really care about us are people who used to drive or drive a S/G or Stock or Super Stk cars cause they can relate to it. Trust me I love watching Super Stk and Stk and I don't go hide once I'm done my S/G run. I just think we have to realize where we stand and not much can fix it cause as you say sponsors will lose money and the fans that did love watching us have moved on.

08-18-2010, 08:43 AM	#5
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St Ok guys.....this thread belongs in the 8.90-9.90 section...but..as you have stated....it is not a fan attraction....but trust me it's still a great class(8.90 or 9.90) to race....and the most heavily attended....so the people complaining aren't really the racers.....Don't get me wrong...I really like this super stock thing....but I still enjoy racing 9.90....it's fast ....and very competitive....and you can go 135 or 175 and still have a good chance to win...(and you don't have to work nearly as hard as you do in SS..more bs time).....The fans have to have time to buy a t shirt or hot dog anyway...lol..they are going to exit the stands for some class.... The SRAC is meeting about a proposed index change...but I doubt it will pass a vote....personally I don't really care what the index is....it's fine the way it is....but some of the guys look at it as a cost increase to lower the indexes....and we don't want that.... I feel like I can comment on the super class stuff as we have been racing it for a long time.......the Super Stock issues I stay out of until I am a little more of a veteran of the class..... Don't we have enough issues to talk about in stock and super stock....without getting into 8.90 and 9.90.... What about those damn CJ's.....and the bad people that race them.....lol Rock Haas 323 SS/DA 302 S/G

08-18-2010, 09:17 AM	#6
JJ3159 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WEST SENECA N.Y. Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St i got it combine everything and make it a giant bracket race,oh wait they have those.or for stock get rid of everything j and up ,for super stock m and up .who enjoys 13 second class cars. __________________ jj h/r 1399 s/r 1399 s/g 1399

08-18-2010, 09:18 AM	#7
TCOONLY Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 18 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St X2 JJ. Cant agree more __________________ Tom Coonly 1211 HR

08-18-2010, 10:06 AM	#8
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St who enjoys 13 second class cars.[/QUOTE] I do. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA

08-18-2010, 10:03 AM	#10
roseracing Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Sioux City, NE Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St We run 3 cars in the .90 classes. One in S/St (10.90), one in S/G (9.90), and one in S/C (8.90). This is an interesting conversation. I would prefer to run with no TS in my S/St car because it barely runs the number anyway. When I first started, all I did was adjust my trottle linkage and I ended up with a R/U finish at my 2nd divisional race. I thought, man this will be great when I add the TS. I added the TS the next year and haven't made it to another final since. (We only race 6 divisionals a year). Now the other 2 cars we have run well under the index, so a TS makes since. Plus it's easier on parts. We don't think TS cars are fun to watch unless your watching at the finish line. We would run whatever the rules dictate, TS or not. We would prefer to run in Stk or S/Stk but the thought of a teardown keeps us away from that. We prefer to do all our work at home and not at the racetrack. In Cordova 2 weeks ago, we were pitted right next to tech. We watched as they tore down the gentlemen in the PT crusier turbo. That guy didn't even get to make his 1st round run (which was a bye, I think) because he didn't have it all back together yet. What fun is that? I guess the same point will be made over and over. It's no fun watching the .90 cars because of the throttle stops. If we take them away and everyone runs essentially the same MPH - how is that more fun to watch? The only logical answer is to lower the indexes. How far to lower them - I don't know. Didn't Stk and/or S/Stk just take a 3 hundreths hit on all indexes this last winter? Why not do the same with the .90 classes? Obviously all the cars at events are faster than they were 20 years ago, but the only classes that haven't had an index change are the .90 classes. I wish NHRA would lower them to 10.00, 9.00, and 8.00. That would make it easier to watch and understand. Obviously, I would have to change a lot on my car to run those numbers, but I would do it. Just my 2 cents. Thanks, Brad Rose Rose Racing