What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?

[Wade Mahaffey]

With all the respect in the world, I ask what would Stock and Super/Stock be if there was not a threat of random teardowns at national events? Would the veteran racers just throw in the towell and car counts get choked completely out? Or would the car counts go up because folks that could'nt play the high dollar game now can? Because they don't look at your stuff like they used too. I hear folks talk about how soft tech has gotten since the old days. And the problems with the AHFS program. It seems like life in general, accountibility and responsibility is not what it used to be! Would no offical/random teardowns be OK if you could still protest, post money, and trigger an offical teardown? Since the eliminator is mostly comprised of mixed classes racing each other on a dial-in (bracket mode), What if you could only protest a (same class) competitor? It seems to me that this would leave the slow guys alone. Who would want to teardown the -.3 under cars engine? Who would take a chance of throwing away say a grand, for something that's probably right. The fast guys would get protested and then torndown to prove they were fast. And if they are fast...they want to prove it! Why fill the barn with -.3 cars (random style) when you could provide more space for the -1.00 cars
Also the small time racer could bend the rules a little to be able to race and build the car count. He could fly under the radar @ -.3 until he got greedy...and caught! I think this could bring more competitors into the mix. And the fast guys with the deep pockets and/or ability and experience could still prove it to each other. I think this would soften up the entry level competitors issues. For the diehard class guys you could keep the teardowns as is for class wins.
Just thinking of ways to increase car counts fellas....don't get nervous! LOL

Wade Mahaffey

[Billy Nees]

Wade, first, as the price of fuel rises you will find that nothing can increase car counts. All racing will eventually become local racing. Second, let me get this straight, you're saying let the .02,.03 under guys slide on tech but the 1.00+ under guys must adhere to the rules just on the chance they might get torndown? Well, that ain't workin for me! I don't want to get put on the trailer by anyone that's not legal. IMHO, that's kinda like being in an accident with an unlicensed driver, no matter whose fault the accident is, it's HIS fault because he didn't belong there in the first place. I get beat by an index runner that's not legal and gets away with it then I've been beaten by somebody who didn't belong there in the first place.
My answer to the title of your thread would have to be, the 1.00+ under guys would eventually be running like F.A.S.T. cars and .02, .03 under guys would be running, flat hood, looks stock, 9" tires.

[Alan Roehrich]

Wade, I've had more than one well respected tech guy tell me they found at least 3 times as many illegal cars in the bottom half of the field as they have in the top half.

What Stock and Super Stock would be without random tear downs is an easy question. They would be a joke, a hollow shell of their former selves. Worse off by far than they already are.

Car counts are down because of the economy and the way NHRA treats the racers. We're about to pay $4 a gallon for diesel, the cost to go to the Gators, if we go, will be $1K in diesel alone. They jacked our entry fee, and our insurance charge, again, fees are up for the 3rd year in a row. They added a $250 fine for any leakage on the track. The contingency payout has shrunk. The regular purse payout has not gone up in so long no one can remember the last date, but I'm thinking a decade. We're the first cars cut from the run sheet due to ANY problems, weather, oil downs, etc, we get shorted a pass. They'll send us into eliminations with ONE PASS, on a green track, that may or may not even hook. We have to get there 1-2 days before the event, or park 90 miles from nowhere, probably in a bad pit space where the truck, trailer, or car, or all three, might sink or flood if it rains. And if the race runs over, we're the ones who lose an extra day of work because we get held over until Monday.

If they need to cheat to run 3 tenths under the index, they need to consider another hobby.

Tear downs are the least of anyone's worries. And if they are worried about being legal, they need to tear down anyway.

The last thing we need to do is further reduce and dilute the performance part of the performance based classes. Too much of that has already been done.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

If they need to cheat to run 3 tenths under the index, they need to consider another hobby.

Tear downs are the least of anyone's worries. And if they are worried about being legal, they need to tear down anyway.

The last thing we need to do is further reduce and dilute the performance part of the performance based classes. Too much of that has already been done.

Well said!

[Shawn Blair]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Well said!

I agree!!!

[Wade Mahaffey]

Alan and Billy, I understand your passion and it's a beautifull thing. I don't know either of you personally, but respect your seniority in the sport. I look at it like this: compromise during tough times to keep it alive. I would give a little, to keep from losing the whole thing. Then ride the rough time while looking for ways to improve. Isn't that what the Stock, Super/Stock combo races are about. There is no teardown at those events, It's no heads-up and a dial-in. Now the car counts are becoming about the same, but the swing is toward the combos. There must be something folks like about it, maybe it's just aggravation mitigation! LOL

Wade Mahaffey

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Wade Mahaffey

Alan and Billy, I understand your passion and it's a beautifull thing. I don't know either of you personally, but respect your seniority in the sport. I look at it like this: compromise during tough times to keep it alive. I would give a little, to keep from losing the whole thing. Then ride the rough time while looking for ways to improve. Isn't that what the Stock, Super/Stock combo races are about. There is no teardown at those events, It's no heads-up and a dial-in. Now the car counts are becoming about the same, but the swing is toward the combos. There must be something folks like about it, maybe it's just aggravation mitigation! LOL

Wade Mahaffey

I look at it like this: compromise during tough times to keep it alive. I would give a little, to keep from losing the whole thing. Then ride the rough time while looking for ways to improve. Isn't that what the Stock, Super/Stock combo races are about. There is no tear down at those events, It's no heads-up and a dial-in.

If you want to do this go to your local track every weekend.It's called bracket racing.Been around a long time.

Ben Franklin's quote,actually about liberty,comes close to compromising on S/SS rules
is right on the mark
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[Mark Yacavone]

Wade, there are no teardowns at Divisionals except for Nat'l records and now there's a cap on them,for the most part.
Those entries are way down too.
I can't see where no teardowns at Nat'l would do anything except bring us even closer to Bracket II

[CycloneFE]

It sounds like to me that the combo's cost less to enter and pay almost what the sanctioned race does with less BS and "enhancements". If the NHRA does not wake up they will have lost their cash cow.

As these guys have said before, it may not be fixable.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Wade Mahaffey

Alan and Billy, I understand your passion and it's a beautifull thing. I don't know either of you personally, but respect your seniority in the sport. I look at it like this: compromise during tough times to keep it alive. I would give a little, to keep from losing the whole thing. Then ride the rough time while looking for ways to improve. Isn't that what the Stock, Super/Stock combo races are about. There is no teardown at those events, It's no heads-up and a dial-in. Now the car counts are becoming about the same, but the swing is toward the combos. There must be something folks like about it, maybe it's just aggravation mitigation! LOL

Wade Mahaffey

Wade, our combo races are NOT "no heads up" races. We do have scales and heads up races. If we took the heads up races out we'd lose a lot of our car count. No, we don't have tear downs. But I don't think anyone would be happy about what would likely happen if they showed up at our races and tried to get away with cheating. because the racers would know.

It is not the lack of heads up races and the lack of tear down that make the combo races popular. It's the way the racers are treated.