Car classification ? - Page 3

SStockDart · 06-14-2011, 01:51 PM

Hold on a second. OK, here is the senerio. You want to put a 1970 - 383 in a 1968 lightweight body. In the classification guide, the "lightweight" body is a Dart 2 door coupe. Not a 270, GT, or a GTS. Therefore, per the classification guide, the heaviest gasoline engine in the "2 door coupe" is the Race Hemi. The weight is 3,020 pounds. So, the 1970 383 is 304 HP. So, the factor is 9.93. That puts the car in GT/D. The minimum weight with the driver (to get to the bottom of the class), is then 3,058, rounded down to 3,055.

The shipping weight can be adusted up to 250 pounds to fit in a class. Using this senerio, the weight adjustment to fit in the class is 132 pounds, and perfectly legal. You could not get this combination into GT/C because that would be a 284 pound adjustment and over the 250 pound limit. This car could move down to GT/E. That is only a 20 pound adjustment.

Regarding lightweight components. The rules state: "Aluminum or other lightweight material may not be used to replace heavier items on car." No mention of replacing lightweight material with something heavier. Therefore, the literal interpretation is that is is legal to claim a 'lightweight' 1968 without having fiberglass fender, acid dipped doors and bumpers, and lightweight glass.

From a realistic perspective, if you want to run this car at the bottom of the class, you will probably need all of the lightweight "stuff". Hope this clears it up.

Stewart Way · 06-14-2011, 02:58 PM

Your right. I never noticed the SS darts were listed under the 270. Since they were made from GTS 383 cars I was looking at the GTS. Maybe I should have picked a Dart and not a Cuda. There is only one listing as a Cuda fastback and the 383 is the heaviest so I may be stuck with that.

Jeff
I decided to go with the 345/305 Drag Pak Hemi and a Jerico. Thats why I wanted it light. Big difference between 3065 and 3370.
Guess I can get into GT/E at 3225. Not quite so bad.

SStockDart · 06-14-2011, 04:15 PM

Good choice Stewart.....That engine is factored at 305 for GT and 401 if in a Challenger. Could have fun with that for a while. Good luck.

Ryck Campbell · 06-14-2011, 08:57 PM

Stewart,
My mistake, I thought I read 69. To answer your "First" point. The 250 was already subtracted before I divided by the horsepower. Using the example that I previously used:

heaviest 1969 Dart GTS shipping weight 3229
minus the allowable 250 -250
equals 2979
divided by the factored hp of engine / 304
equals 9.80 this is the lightest the car can be.

So for GT/DA it is 9.80 x 304 + 170 = 3149 or 3145 scale weight.

The car gets to GT/GA 3229 shipping weight plus 250 = 3479 divided by 304 = 11.44 and G is an 11 pound class.

Second: Class is determined by the Classification Guide which contains shipping weights of vehicles; not the weight of an engine. In the case that I used you could not use the Hemi hood. Even if the car was a 1968, if the car did not contain all components necessary to be a "Hemi car" then the hood could not be used either.

Third: If the car has all Hemi car components (obviously less engine) then the 3020 shipping weight would be used but only if all components are there.

Jeff, I think I answered your question above but since we use the Classification Guide ot classify cars then it's the shipping weight that we use.

Stewart Way · 06-14-2011, 10:48 PM

Ryck
Thanks for the responses. Still think the Verbiage of heaviest vehicle vs heaviest engine needs work in th rulebook.

Will.
Well I'm sure your confused now. My advise is check with your division on what is required on your dart to run the hood. I always thought those who refered to the "West Coast Rulebook" were joking, now I'm not so sure.

Paul Precht · 06-14-2011, 11:28 PM

I'm very confused now. I called Cali twice and Div 1 once and all times was told that I could run the aluminum hood without fenders in SS or GT but not stock. I was told I could run it with the 70 383 in GT/HA. If the Hemi car has to have the lightweight fenders why doesn't the 63 car.

Jeff Lee · 06-15-2011, 03:17 AM

Stewart,
Great combo for you to run, sounds like it will be a killer in class! Get it done quickly as the HP life of that engine will die a quick death once it makes the GT scene!

X-TECH MAN · 06-15-2011, 09:15 AM

All of this sounds like "WHO's ON FIRST" !

06-14-2011, 01:51 PM	#21
SStockDart VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arizona, Texan forever Posts: 1,178 Likes: 880 Liked 574 Times in 212 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Hold on a second. OK, here is the senerio. You want to put a 1970 - 383 in a 1968 lightweight body. In the classification guide, the "lightweight" body is a Dart 2 door coupe. Not a 270, GT, or a GTS. Therefore, per the classification guide, the heaviest gasoline engine in the "2 door coupe" is the Race Hemi. The weight is 3,020 pounds. So, the 1970 383 is 304 HP. So, the factor is 9.93. That puts the car in GT/D. The minimum weight with the driver (to get to the bottom of the class), is then 3,058, rounded down to 3,055. The shipping weight can be adusted up to 250 pounds to fit in a class. Using this senerio, the weight adjustment to fit in the class is 132 pounds, and perfectly legal. You could not get this combination into GT/C because that would be a 284 pound adjustment and over the 250 pound limit. This car could move down to GT/E. That is only a 20 pound adjustment. Regarding lightweight components. The rules state: "Aluminum or other lightweight material may not be used to replace heavier items on car." No mention of replacing lightweight material with something heavier. Therefore, the literal interpretation is that is is legal to claim a 'lightweight' 1968 without having fiberglass fender, acid dipped doors and bumpers, and lightweight glass. From a realistic perspective, if you want to run this car at the bottom of the class, you will probably need all of the lightweight "stuff". Hope this clears it up.

06-14-2011, 02:58 PM	#22
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Your right. I never noticed the SS darts were listed under the 270. Since they were made from GTS 383 cars I was looking at the GTS. Maybe I should have picked a Dart and not a Cuda. There is only one listing as a Cuda fastback and the 383 is the heaviest so I may be stuck with that. Jeff I decided to go with the 345/305 Drag Pak Hemi and a Jerico. Thats why I wanted it light. Big difference between 3065 and 3370. Guess I can get into GT/E at 3225. Not quite so bad. __________________ Stewart Way 2424 SS Last edited by Stewart Way; 06-14-2011 at 03:04 PM.

06-14-2011, 04:15 PM	#23
SStockDart VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arizona, Texan forever Posts: 1,178 Likes: 880 Liked 574 Times in 212 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Good choice Stewart.....That engine is factored at 305 for GT and 401 if in a Challenger. Could have fun with that for a while. Good luck.

06-14-2011, 08:57 PM	#24
Ryck Campbell Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 56 Likes: 176 Liked 46 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Stewart, My mistake, I thought I read 69. To answer your "First" point. The 250 was already subtracted before I divided by the horsepower. Using the example that I previously used: heaviest 1969 Dart GTS shipping weight 3229 minus the allowable 250 -250 equals 2979 divided by the factored hp of engine / 304 equals 9.80 this is the lightest the car can be. So for GT/DA it is 9.80 x 304 + 170 = 3149 or 3145 scale weight. The car gets to GT/GA 3229 shipping weight plus 250 = 3479 divided by 304 = 11.44 and G is an 11 pound class. Second: Class is determined by the Classification Guide which contains shipping weights of vehicles; not the weight of an engine. In the case that I used you could not use the Hemi hood. Even if the car was a 1968, if the car did not contain all components necessary to be a "Hemi car" then the hood could not be used either. Third: If the car has all Hemi car components (obviously less engine) then the 3020 shipping weight would be used but only if all components are there. Jeff, I think I answered your question above but since we use the Classification Guide ot classify cars then it's the shipping weight that we use. __________________ Ryck Campbell NHRA Technical Specialist

06-14-2011, 10:48 PM	#25
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Ryck Thanks for the responses. Still think the Verbiage of heaviest vehicle vs heaviest engine needs work in th rulebook. Will. Well I'm sure your confused now. My advise is check with your division on what is required on your dart to run the hood. I always thought those who refered to the "West Coast Rulebook" were joking, now I'm not so sure. __________________ Stewart Way 2424 SS

06-14-2011, 11:28 PM	#26
Paul Precht Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Elysburg, Pa Posts: 733 Likes: 361 Liked 327 Times in 121 Posts	Re: Car classification ? I'm very confused now. I called Cali twice and Div 1 once and all times was told that I could run the aluminum hood without fenders in SS or GT but not stock. I was told I could run it with the 70 383 in GT/HA. If the Hemi car has to have the lightweight fenders why doesn't the 63 car.

06-15-2011, 03:17 AM	#27
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Car classification ? Stewart, Great combo for you to run, sounds like it will be a killer in class! Get it done quickly as the HP life of that engine will die a quick death once it makes the GT scene! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

06-15-2011, 09:15 AM	#28
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Car classification ? All of this sounds like "WHO's ON FIRST" !