Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock - Page 5

Lee Jordan (3223) A/S · 11-14-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy d

Hey Lee, is this your Pops car? Pic taken by me at INDY.

No thats not it. I have seen it before but cant remember who owned it.

Jeff Lee · 11-14-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doglover44

I have heard alot that stick cars are easy to maintain and dont cost much to run as a auto

True, as long as you have the right parts and can read and follow instructions. There's a long list of "don't do's" that if eliminated will definetley make for a car as you describe. Best addressed on a new thread.

Ed Wright · 11-14-2013, 03:01 PM

I don't get how they don't cost as much to run as an auto?

Mike Pearson · 11-14-2013, 04:41 PM

I have run both and a stick is much more expensive and labor intensive to race. The fun factor for a stick is way high and makes up for some of that. If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto. There are a select few stick racers that go many rounds but they are fewer and farther between than autos.

Alex Denysenko · 11-14-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I have run both and a stick is much more expensive and labor intensive to race. The fun factor for a stick is way high and makes up for some of that. If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto. There are a select few stick racers that go many rounds but they are fewer and farther between than autos.

AMEN BROTHER ME TOO! My 65 SS Mustang was orginally a stick and it about broke me in more ways than one so I gave up and converted it to automatic in the mid 70's slowed down a ton but hard work and more dollars got it all back and then some.

Ed Wright · 11-14-2013, 05:12 PM

Stick cars ARE WAY more fun, if your young enough to enjoy the maint. I typically have my converter & Trans looked at every two years. Can't see how that costs more to run than a stick.

Some stick racers make a lot bigger deal out of what they are doing than is real, but I guess it makes them feel good. LOL

I have a lot more stick passes under my (way too long :-) ) belt than in an auto, it ain't that big a deal to drive one. I made a pass in a friend's stick car a few years ago, one pass. About 5 Hun slower than he ran that day, and according to his play back tach hit the shifts pretty close. Surprised us both. They now sure shift easier than I remembered. I am not in any physical shape, nor any longer interested in the maintenance.

Charlie Ford · 11-14-2013, 06:31 PM

I know where there's a 71' Mustang stick for sell. Fresh everything.

Jeff Lee · 11-14-2013, 07:34 PM

$2850 +/- New Jerico with Long Shifter
$650 +/- New Bellhousing
$2100 +/- New Single Sportsman 10" or McLeod Soft Lock (clutch / PP / Flywheel) or $2900 for a Dual 7" Sportsman

Compare to new Pro-Trans or similar, PPP or similar shifter, one, if not two or three convertors.

I just went out first time in 7 years with a new Dual 7" Sportsman assembly. Followed manufacturers instructions, have nearly .500" throwout bearing clearance (one of the most neglected instructions and #1 cause of burnt clutches if not properly set) and .050" air gap. Manufacturer told me the counter-weight to use and initial base pressure. After 1st pass adjusted the base pressure from 670#'s down to 580#'s. I made all passes at 5800 RPM launch RPM.

No, I don't yet have a data logger. But I'd be willing to bet the clutch tune is within 15% to 20% of perfection and as it is now, good enough for 85% of the stick racers. And realistically, if I make two more base pressure adjustments, I'll know where the point of not enough base pressure is and you just ad a little more and your good. It takes less than 15 minutes to adjust the base pressure. A data logger will get the base and counter weights perfect.
I bought the Dual 7" as it's not only faster than the Sportsman single 10" but what I really saw as a major benefit was a larger tuning window. Which means less work.

And for some reason this shifts far easier than it ever did. I suspect it is two things. 1) the lighter & smaller clutch assembly and 2) I really had to much driveshaft angle that has now been corrected. Now it's that "hot knife through butter" shift where before I was really muscling it even with low base pressures. Whatever it is, I like it.

That's the cost comparison and setup. You can't compare something like this to something you had 5 years ago, much less back in the '90's or 80's.

Consistency - auto trans is a giant heat sink that affects the block and fluid temps more so than a manual trans. Once the clutch is properly tuned, you shouldn't have to work on it all weekend. You can adjust your lights with tighter or larger air gaps but be careful that after around .065" you are hitting the clutch and tires so hard that traction is affected. It's best to alter start RPM along with tire pressures; just like an auto car. Of course drive skill comes to play also. I see no reason why anybody shouldn't be able to hit a shift point. But then again, I can't understand why anybody would need an air bottle to make their shifts with an auto trans.

And fun? Nothing like shifting into second 3-4 feet in the air! I'm not sure I really want that Calvert wheelie bar I just ordered.

No, I'm not professing to be an expert. I just know what needs to be done. The lights I had showed me I was way out of practice

!

Ed Wright · 11-14-2013, 08:16 PM

That was my first stick pass since 1979. Nothing to it. Softer clutch pedal, shifted so easy it was like nothing connected to the shifter. Much easier than a slick shifted Super T10. I was shifting those is up the air back then. Nothing to it.

I haven't adjusted my one & only torque converter in five years. LOL

He mentioned cost of running one. No mention of cost of putting one together.

K Stubbs · 11-14-2013, 08:48 PM

"If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto"

This was not the case for me. I had better reaction times, won more rounds including my first National Event, after switching my car to a stick. Very easy maintenance and more consistent car when done. The car did not vary as much in ET with weather changes.

11-14-2013, 03:01 PM	#43
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock I don't get how they don't cost as much to run as an auto? __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

11-14-2013, 04:41 PM	#44
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,451 Likes: 615 Liked 1,932 Times in 580 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock I have run both and a stick is much more expensive and labor intensive to race. The fun factor for a stick is way high and makes up for some of that. If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto. There are a select few stick racers that go many rounds but they are fewer and farther between than autos. __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS

11-14-2013, 05:12 PM	#46
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock Stick cars ARE WAY more fun, if your young enough to enjoy the maint. I typically have my converter & Trans looked at every two years. Can't see how that costs more to run than a stick. Some stick racers make a lot bigger deal out of what they are doing than is real, but I guess it makes them feel good. LOL I have a lot more stick passes under my (way too long :-) ) belt than in an auto, it ain't that big a deal to drive one. I made a pass in a friend's stick car a few years ago, one pass. About 5 Hun slower than he ran that day, and according to his play back tach hit the shifts pretty close. Surprised us both. They now sure shift easier than I remembered. I am not in any physical shape, nor any longer interested in the maintenance. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

11-14-2013, 06:31 PM	#47
Charlie Ford Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 169 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock I know where there's a 71' Mustang stick for sell. Fresh everything. __________________ Charlie Ford 4729 STK

11-14-2013, 07:34 PM	#48
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock $2850 +/- New Jerico with Long Shifter $650 +/- New Bellhousing $2100 +/- New Single Sportsman 10" or McLeod Soft Lock (clutch / PP / Flywheel) or $2900 for a Dual 7" Sportsman Compare to new Pro-Trans or similar, PPP or similar shifter, one, if not two or three convertors. I just went out first time in 7 years with a new Dual 7" Sportsman assembly. Followed manufacturers instructions, have nearly .500" throwout bearing clearance (one of the most neglected instructions and #1 cause of burnt clutches if not properly set) and .050" air gap. Manufacturer told me the counter-weight to use and initial base pressure. After 1st pass adjusted the base pressure from 670#'s down to 580#'s. I made all passes at 5800 RPM launch RPM. No, I don't yet have a data logger. But I'd be willing to bet the clutch tune is within 15% to 20% of perfection and as it is now, good enough for 85% of the stick racers. And realistically, if I make two more base pressure adjustments, I'll know where the point of not enough base pressure is and you just ad a little more and your good. It takes less than 15 minutes to adjust the base pressure. A data logger will get the base and counter weights perfect. I bought the Dual 7" as it's not only faster than the Sportsman single 10" but what I really saw as a major benefit was a larger tuning window. Which means less work. And for some reason this shifts far easier than it ever did. I suspect it is two things. 1) the lighter & smaller clutch assembly and 2) I really had to much driveshaft angle that has now been corrected. Now it's that "hot knife through butter" shift where before I was really muscling it even with low base pressures. Whatever it is, I like it. That's the cost comparison and setup. You can't compare something like this to something you had 5 years ago, much less back in the '90's or 80's. Consistency - auto trans is a giant heat sink that affects the block and fluid temps more so than a manual trans. Once the clutch is properly tuned, you shouldn't have to work on it all weekend. You can adjust your lights with tighter or larger air gaps but be careful that after around .065" you are hitting the clutch and tires so hard that traction is affected. It's best to alter start RPM along with tire pressures; just like an auto car. Of course drive skill comes to play also. I see no reason why anybody shouldn't be able to hit a shift point. But then again, I can't understand why anybody would need an air bottle to make their shifts with an auto trans. And fun? Nothing like shifting into second 3-4 feet in the air! I'm not sure I really want that Calvert wheelie bar I just ordered. No, I'm not professing to be an expert. I just know what needs to be done. The lights I had showed me I was way out of practice ! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-14-2013, 08:16 PM	#49
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock That was my first stick pass since 1979. Nothing to it. Softer clutch pedal, shifted so easy it was like nothing connected to the shifter. Much easier than a slick shifted Super T10. I was shifting those is up the air back then. Nothing to it. I haven't adjusted my one & only torque converter in five years. LOL He mentioned cost of running one. No mention of cost of putting one together. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 11-14-2013 at 08:23 PM.

11-14-2013, 08:48 PM	#50
K Stubbs Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Benton, Arkansas Posts: 402 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock "If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto" This was not the case for me. I had better reaction times, won more rounds including my first National Event, after switching my car to a stick. Very easy maintenance and more consistent car when done. The car did not vary as much in ET with weather changes.