Buttons in Stock - Page 2

Michael Beard · 10-15-2007, 10:36 AM

Gary writes: >> it's the really quick foot brake lights within a tight range that I can't fathom. [...] that could garner consistent .02 - .03 lights.

If you can find .02 to .03 lights, then after some adjustment, you can find .01 to .02 lights. Adjust the car some more, and there's .00 to .01 lights. If you look at all of their runs, 'the hitters' really *aren't* double-oh every run. With the stats someone posted before, I think Lee Zane had the best average, and I've seen him at 'footbrake only' races, and he's every bit as good without them.

>> But I've been around long enough to know there's nobody that good that often on so many tracks.

Y'all are welcome to look at my logbook anytime. The rollout of my Volare doesn't really suit me, although I'm making progress with it. But even with that car, if I'm DEAD late, it's an .03x or .04x light. The very first year I drove Terry Knott's Dart Sport, my average R/T for the season was .024. Both cars are 'pure footbrake'. I don't want this to come across big-headed. If you're going to make broad statements, they need to be backed up with statistics. If I can do it footbraking, why is it so outlandish that the "hitters" can do it with better cars, more experience, and 2-steps?

I would argue that there's a lot more guys that good that you haven't even heard of yet.
I announced at the World Footbrake Challenge at Bristol this year... got to watch 300 footbrakers for 3 days, and that included Lee Zane. YES, they ARE that good, and YES, there ARE more than just a few of them out there! Just be glad that more of them don't run Stock. Chris Plott (who also footbraked to the *Box* class championship at Mooresville this year!) and Adam Davis both won Stock in their one and only attempts, just for an example, and it only took Ricky Baehr about 3-4 races to win a National event. I hate to say it, but these kids may even be better than Zane. When these guys who are in literally 30-40 final rounds a year start running Stock, you'll have a whole new crowd to fuss about.

In RE: to "that good that often on so many tracks.", you have a couple of things to consider, the primary one being rollout. Rollout is only going to differ so much from track to track. Personally, I consider the majority of tracks as having a 'baseline' rollout. Some tracks will be a little looser, some a little tighter. It's rare for any track to be more than .01-.02 different from the baseline. When you travel a lot, it doesn't take too long to rack up multiple visits to a track. By keeping good notes in your logbook, you can know how to set up for a track before you make the first hit.

Now, the key is to first be consistent, yourself. As mentioned before, I carry a handheld practice tree with me from Biondo. When you react, you need to be able to know how you hit it and what the numbers should be before they come up on the display (or scoreboard). If you can do that, you can instantly relate how both you and the car reacted, to what you're seeing on the scoreboard, and know that if YOU were late or early, or if the track's rollout varies from the 'baseline rollout'. It's also important to make a hit in both lanes, as lanes can vary as well. The first time I ever went to Grand Bend, at the head of the staging lanes, I hit the practice tree... .013, .011, .012, .012, and then pulled into the burnout box. I was .012 on the track, thus reinforcing that my rollout setting in the practice tree was correct. Now, had I felt like I had missed it, and came up .028, I *still* would have known that my practice rollout was correct. Had I felt like I killed it, and came up .028, then I would know that the rollout is loose, and would have to adjust my car and/or my practice rollout accordingly.

My dad hollers at me, "Don't give away all your secrets!", but I have an Educational Psychology background, and I enjoy teaching. If you see me at the track, come say hi. Ask questions if you want, or tell me your opinions. I'm an open book.

>>I'm thinking this is after at least 30 -40 passes in the same lane at the same track.

2-3 should be enough. Again - logbooks and practice trees.

>> But leaving with a button removes many of these variables IMHO.

THAT I will agree with!

>> what is up with the brake pressure activated two step switch in the brake line ??

I never thought of that! Smart idea. Those drivers should experience even more consistency by making sure their brake pressure is the same on every run -- meaning they should release more consistently as well.

FYI - Tony Wood kicked my butt at Tulsa!

LOL I'm coming for a rematch next year, bud!

I know where the rollout is at that track, now.

Gary Smith · 10-15-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

My dad hollers at me, "Don't give away all your secrets!", but I have an Educational Psychology background, and I enjoy teaching. If you see me at the track, come say hi. Ask questions if you want, or tell me your opinions. I'm an open book.

I know who I'm parking next to at IHRA events LOL..... you better make room for me Mike!!

Gary Smith · 10-15-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

And jut who are these Div. 1 racers who are cheating?It
always seems that Div. 1 hastheso called cheaters,no other div. Where were the infamous Dirty Dozen from?How about a certain Div. 7 racer who's gone under under the radar at Indy for pistons and short block?Yeah only those round going Div. and Nat'l. champions from Div. 1 are cheaters.Right Ed O????????????????

Ed F.
NHRA #15
IHRA #1945
T/SA

NED We're #1

I promise you Ed... your name wasn't mentioned. And your right... NED is #1 unlike down here where our division is #2 (and smells like it too.)

Michael Beard · 10-16-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Smith

I know who I'm parking next to at IHRA events LOL..... you better make room for me Mike!!

Piece o' cake. Pickup and an open trailer... there's always room!

I think Ed F.'s cheating. TWO Runner-Ups at MIR this year, and kicked my butt along the way. Must be the little Pepsi's.

Jim Wahl · 10-16-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Smith

I promise you Ed... your name wasn't mentioned. And your right... NED is #1 unlike down here where our division is #2 (and smells like it too.)

I'm still laughing Gary! You said it brother! Jim

Ed Fernandez · 10-16-2007, 02:15 PM

Dont like Div. 2 move up here.You know damn well who i was talking about.What was your grade points this year.I laid back and I still will have a 7.Race a little more and maybe you can beat some of the Div. 1 "cheaters" when they come down south.

Ed F.
NHRA #15
HHRA #1945

jerrym · 10-16-2007, 03:56 PM

Chris Plott (who also footbraked to the *Box* class championship at Mooresville this year!) and Adam Davis both won Stock in their one and only attempts, just for an example, and it only took Ricky Baehr about 3-4 races to win a National event.

Damn Micheal ive only been gone for 1 yesr and you already forgot about me?

I won the 1st natinal event i ever entered!

Thats okay ill be back next year ! see ya soon

Jeremy Mitchell

Michael Beard · 10-16-2007, 04:18 PM

Well, YEAH! My dad always tells me this is a "what have you done lately" sport. Gotta keep in the headlines! But YOU were cheating. I don't think anyone else has fallen out of a tree with that car.

But seriously, hope that things are good with the family. It'll (be great/really suck) to have you back!

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that this thread hasn't spurred on more conversation about "how can I improve my racing program?" I learn something new all the time.

Mike Carr · 10-16-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that this thread hasn't spurred on more conversation about "how can I improve my racing program?" I learn something new all the time.

C'mon Michael. You and I both know it's so much easier for some to complain about others, than to actually spend time making themselves better!

P.S. Have you heard anything about Beaver Springs hopefully getting a Pro-Am event back? The rate we're going up here, we won't have enough tracks/events in Div 1 and 3.

Harry 6674 · 10-16-2007, 04:44 PM

For everyone thats concerned about adjustable buttons. If they are taken away and you have to cheat just use an adjustable relay that the spec button controls. Maybe some are useing them now?? If we want to cheat the stuff is available to do so.

10-15-2007, 10:36 AM	#11
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Buttons in Stock Gary writes: >> it's the really quick foot brake lights within a tight range that I can't fathom. [...] that could garner consistent .02 - .03 lights. If you can find .02 to .03 lights, then after some adjustment, you can find .01 to .02 lights. Adjust the car some more, and there's .00 to .01 lights. If you look at all of their runs, 'the hitters' really aren't double-oh every run. With the stats someone posted before, I think Lee Zane had the best average, and I've seen him at 'footbrake only' races, and he's every bit as good without them. >> But I've been around long enough to know there's nobody that good that often on so many tracks. Y'all are welcome to look at my logbook anytime. The rollout of my Volare doesn't really suit me, although I'm making progress with it. But even with that car, if I'm DEAD late, it's an .03x or .04x light. The very first year I drove Terry Knott's Dart Sport, my average R/T for the season was .024. Both cars are 'pure footbrake'. I don't want this to come across big-headed. If you're going to make broad statements, they need to be backed up with statistics. If I can do it footbraking, why is it so outlandish that the "hitters" can do it with better cars, more experience, and 2-steps? I would argue that there's a lot more guys that good that you haven't even heard of yet. I announced at the World Footbrake Challenge at Bristol this year... got to watch 300 footbrakers for 3 days, and that included Lee Zane. YES, they ARE that good, and YES, there ARE more than just a few of them out there! Just be glad that more of them don't run Stock. Chris Plott (who also footbraked to the Box class championship at Mooresville this year!) and Adam Davis both won Stock in their one and only attempts, just for an example, and it only took Ricky Baehr about 3-4 races to win a National event. I hate to say it, but these kids may even be better than Zane. When these guys who are in literally 30-40 final rounds a year start running Stock, you'll have a whole new crowd to fuss about. In RE: to "that good that often on so many tracks.", you have a couple of things to consider, the primary one being rollout. Rollout is only going to differ so much from track to track. Personally, I consider the majority of tracks as having a 'baseline' rollout. Some tracks will be a little looser, some a little tighter. It's rare for any track to be more than .01-.02 different from the baseline. When you travel a lot, it doesn't take too long to rack up multiple visits to a track. By keeping good notes in your logbook, you can know how to set up for a track before you make the first hit. Now, the key is to first be consistent, yourself. As mentioned before, I carry a handheld practice tree with me from Biondo. When you react, you need to be able to know how you hit it and what the numbers should be before they come up on the display (or scoreboard). If you can do that, you can instantly relate how both you and the car reacted, to what you're seeing on the scoreboard, and know that if YOU were late or early, or if the track's rollout varies from the 'baseline rollout'. It's also important to make a hit in both lanes, as lanes can vary as well. The first time I ever went to Grand Bend, at the head of the staging lanes, I hit the practice tree... .013, .011, .012, .012, and then pulled into the burnout box. I was .012 on the track, thus reinforcing that my rollout setting in the practice tree was correct. Now, had I felt like I had missed it, and came up .028, I still would have known that my practice rollout was correct. Had I felt like I killed it, and came up .028, then I would know that the rollout is loose, and would have to adjust my car and/or my practice rollout accordingly. My dad hollers at me, "Don't give away all your secrets!", but I have an Educational Psychology background, and I enjoy teaching. If you see me at the track, come say hi. Ask questions if you want, or tell me your opinions. I'm an open book. >>I'm thinking this is after at least 30 -40 passes in the same lane at the same track. 2-3 should be enough. Again - logbooks and practice trees. >> But leaving with a button removes many of these variables IMHO. THAT I will agree with! >> what is up with the brake pressure activated two step switch in the brake line ?? I never thought of that! Smart idea. Those drivers should experience even more consistency by making sure their brake pressure is the same on every run -- meaning they should release more consistently as well. FYI - Tony Wood kicked my butt at Tulsa! LOL I'm coming for a rematch next year, bud! I know where the rollout is at that track, now. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

10-16-2007, 02:15 PM	#16
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: Buttons in Stock Dont like Div. 2 move up here.You know damn well who i was talking about.What was your grade points this year.I laid back and I still will have a 7.Race a little more and maybe you can beat some of the Div. 1 "cheaters" when they come down south. Ed F. NHRA #15 HHRA #1945 __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA

10-16-2007, 03:56 PM	#17
jerrym Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 17 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Buttons in Stock Chris Plott (who also footbraked to the Box class championship at Mooresville this year!) and Adam Davis both won Stock in their one and only attempts, just for an example, and it only took Ricky Baehr about 3-4 races to win a National event. Damn Micheal ive only been gone for 1 yesr and you already forgot about me? I won the 1st natinal event i ever entered! Thats okay ill be back next year ! see ya soon Jeremy Mitchell

10-16-2007, 04:18 PM	#18
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Buttons in Stock Well, YEAH! My dad always tells me this is a "what have you done lately" sport. Gotta keep in the headlines! But YOU were cheating. I don't think anyone else has fallen out of a tree with that car. But seriously, hope that things are good with the family. It'll (be great/really suck) to have you back! To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that this thread hasn't spurred on more conversation about "how can I improve my racing program?" I learn something new all the time. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

10-16-2007, 04:44 PM	#20
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Buttons in Stock For everyone thats concerned about adjustable buttons. If they are taken away and you have to cheat just use an adjustable relay that the spec button controls. Maybe some are useing them now?? If we want to cheat the stuff is available to do so.