Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock

[cutta]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shift

We’re fortunate to have many bright, creative and resourceful members that contribute to this forum and it’s a pleasure to state that I learn from them each time I visit. I’m certain that other members are like-minded in this regard.

Before any additional energy is expelled by the release of thought/idea vectors that emanate from the Classracer nucleus, and prior to taking up cudgels for Pro Stock, Factory Stock or both, let’s use reverse gear and return to the origins of this thread.

Mike’s initial post referenced a short article that can only be understood to imply that a Pro-Stock hauler today is no less that rolling sarcophagus, likely of limestone. Its ornate decor has been transformed to hieroglyphics, requiring the Rosetta stone to provide clarity and understanding.

In our organization, it's vital to fully understand a problem prior to attempting to create and implement a resolution.

The great man, Albert Einstein stated (and I paraphrase) – Give me an hour to save the world and I’ll spend 55 minutes defining the problem and 5 minutes resolving it.

So let’s begin the exercise.

The referenced article reinforced human nature. We’re very adept at creating solutions. Solutions are much more pleasurable and seemingly productive than analysis. The author spent considerable time discussing his proposal of a solution but very little time was consumed toward clearly defining the problem.

· Does Pro Stock have a problem? If so, what is it?

Pro Stock Problems:

1. Money! This is obvious but the more money involved the more incentive for people to build cars to come race. Where does the money come from? Not sure but I can say for sure its not coming from NHRA. Its not going to happen and they've prove that year after year so lets not suggest that or assume they have the ability to market things better either, they've come up short there too going on many years. I truly believe the solution has to come from somewhere else where the dependence isn't on NHRA to survive. That goes for every other class too

2. A disappearing fan base. A changing fan base. How do you get people to consume the product that is Pro Stock better? I'm not sure of how to do this because the attention span of the generic consumer is small, their interest are changing/evolving, and how do we mesh that with a world of technology that is the source of much our entertainment these days. How do you bridge that gap?

These are two issues I see.

[Bunkster]

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY

I can see by your writing that you are a well educated man. How about you decipher this post in PLAIN English so this dumb Azz hillbilly can understand what you are sharing with us ??

Mike:

Esoteric indicates a fan base that would pay dearly if you and friends install a W-motor in that wonderful wagon.

Intrinsic would imply the tri-power version is used.

These two words used together mandate it be a 4 speed.

Let me know if any further interpretation would be helpful.

[matt82114]

I'm just a casual fan, but I have always liked stock and super stock. Pro Stock started intriguing me when I was in my mid-twenties. Full disclosure, I'm 35 now. And I probably know and understand way more about each category then 99% of the other casual fans simply bc I enjoy learning about the ins and outs of the classes.

But I started to lose interest a couple years ago when I realized that the class is just becoming so mundane and uninteresting. For a time it almost seemed like whoever let the clutch foot out first would win the race. Okay, so we have these really expensive cars that are so evenly matched it comes down to who can let the left foot up first. That gets pretty boring race after race after race after race.

But I'm one of those casual fans who has always liked watching drag racing ever since I was a little kid. I still remember my dad taking me to Baylands in Fremont, California.

If I had the money and the time, I would absolutely figure out a way to have a stock or super stock car. But to be completely honest, I just cannot see spending $30,000 for an entry-level stocker, another $50k for a very used motorhome & trailer, and spending the amount of time and money it would take to be a division 3 racer for a hobby. Does that mean I think stock and super stock are going to die? Absolutely not. But I'll sit on this side of the fence for a long long time simply watching you guys and respecting (the absolute dog snot) what you do.

Whether it is stock, super stock, top dragster, top Sportsman, comp Eliminator, or any of the super categories, drag racing "participants" has evolved into a blue-collar sport for white-collar people.

In regards to the FS cars taking over Pro Stock; it is something I would like to see. I think as of right now it's pretty neat that the same cars I can watch go down the quarter mile in low-to-mid 8-seconds look just like their street legal counterpart driving around on the road.
I do think it's only a matter of time though that the guys with the deepest pockets will eventually rule the roost and take over the factory Showdown cars if they do become the new Pro Stock. The only way to save that would be if, and I do mean a serious if, NHRA can regulate it and keep it to where the above average joe's can still compete with the Grays, Ken Black, Elite, Etc.

When I'm in the stands, either at a divisional or a national, other fans like the FS cars. Sure, they don't know jack squat about the cars, but they can relate to them. And that's how you spark interest. Finding common ground.

I truly am sorry that NHRA put you guys through so much crap. You guys put so much Blood Sweat and Tears into your hobby and NHRA pretty much doesn't give a darn about it. So I guess you can say that's another reason why I really don't want to race in any category NHRA has to offer. Because what's the point of spending all of that money and time just to feel like I'm getting crapped on week in & week out.

Sorry for the long post. Just thought some of you would want to hear thoughts from a fan and not a fellow racer.

Matt Hanley
Hendersonville, TN

[Mike Pearson]

Pro stock is the only pro category that I like to watch. The racing is very close and has become a drivers race. No more can you cut a .060 light and expect to win a round. It would be better for the class if the other makes were better represented. Nothing in a pro stock car came from the big 3 manufacturers. Every part is aftermarket racing equipment. The one thing that has hurt pro stock was the addition of pro mod into NHrA ationalevent competition. Pro mod is kind of pro stock on steroids and they have taken away some of the potential sponsorships that could have gone to the pro stock teams. I don't think that replacing pro stock with the factory stock cars will make any difference. If there is no sponsor money the millionaires will be the only ones running those cars as well. It really comes down to the fact that NHRA has not promoted a good value for the sponsors needed to keep the high dollar classes funded. The super teams in all of the pro classes have pretty much ruined it for the smaller teams or privateers and NHRA has stood by and allowed it to happen. The factory stock class should be a class all i its own to see if it can survive on its own merits. If you can't qualify for the FD show than you should not be allowed bac in the stock or super stock elimination rounds with the same vehicle. I don't know how long the factories will continue to build the cars and engine components to keep the factory stock class alive. I guess time will tell in that. The factory stock cars are very cool but they are not that fun to watch. The cars a finicky with regard to traction and there is not many good side by side races that I have seen where at least one of the cars did not have traction problems. Big power and small tires have that recipe.
I surely don't have the answers nor do the sanctioning bodies. All Motorsports seem to be in the same predicament. Gate fees too high for the racer and spectator is one big issue. I was recently at the Coke Zero 400 at Daytona and the attendance there was at an all time low. Just too expensive. The racing and entertainment was really good and the updates that were done to the Daytona speedway are spectacular. Too bad they did not add a drag strip to the property when they did the update.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by nhramnl

Let's not forget that this problem has been going on for decades. NHRA is completely incapable of enforcing the rules in any category, and the result has always been a gradual but steady increase in complexity and cost. Stockers used to actually be substantially stock. When they were, a racer could actually build one and compete at Divisional and even National events. He would load his Stocker on his open trailer, and his pickup would pull it to the track. Nowadays, He puts his $125,000 car in his stacker trailer and pulls it with a $200,000 toterhome. I feel (and admit that it's just my observation) that all categories have been allowed to do literally whatever they want, and the result has been former fans just losing interest, primarily because they don't understand the differences between categories and classes. Also, NHRA has made National events into circuses, with snowmobiles, bracket cars, Pro Mod, Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. Super Stock used to be an actual draw, because people who understood and loved the cars and what racers were able to make them do, would run to the fence to watch the wheelstands, whenever they were called. Finally, we shouldn't forget that many of today's kids couldn't care less about cars. Sure, Junior Dragster offers an option to the few who do intend to grow up in the sport, but the majority of kids would rather play video games. Everything has a life span, and that's usually because what starts out as a simple, great idea gets distorted into something you can't even recognize.

So you're saying that the problem with today's Stock and Super Stock classes are the tow rigs and the other classes that have been allowed to run the events?

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Bunkster

Mike:

Esoteric indicates a fan base that would pay dearly if you and friends install a W-motor in that wonderful wagon.

Intrinsic would imply the tri-power version is used.

These two words used together mandate it be a 4 speed.

Let me know if any further interpretation would be helpful.

.....Oh, OK......Thanks....For a moment I thought I might have to ask Chuck Norton to translate it for me........

[Bob Mulry]

Just my 2 cents..........

For the old that can't remember or the young who weren't there, NHRA had a formula for success but they threw it away.....

Let me roll back the time machine to the 1970's & 80's.

Each Division had their own champions from Top Fuel to Stock and we competed at our HOME division tracks (you got more points)...

A race fan could go to a local track and see it all. Local sponsorship would sell to the buyers in the area, not hundreds of miles away.

If you wanted to be a World Champion you had to finish in the Top 10 of your division to be invited to the World Finals to compete for a World Championship.

We had local Top Fuel teams sponsored by gas stations..

The Pro's wanted to be Pro's I guess and then they only raced at National Events. What this did was remove the interest of a local fan to attend a local Divisional meet.

No Pro's no support. No fans. No money. No getting the next generation interested in what we do. Racing used to be affordable (ha ha) because even Top Fuel teams raced out of their own garages.

Have we become too professional for our own good?????

NHRA needs a complete overhaul to survive and going back will be a tough pill to swallow, but reducing the cost to participate is a step in the right direction..

If Pro Stock was affordable, with a pay out in line with expenses, there might be some new blood.

Do you think having the PRO's back at Divisional racers could increase the fan base????

I just remember how it was, with the stands filled and waiting the next issue of National Dragster to see if you still had a spot in the top 10 of your division....

I don't have a clue if this would work or if anybody wanted it work, but I do know that what NHRA is doing now isn't working.

Bob

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shift

Not a chance that any of these arcane suggestions would have a positive impact on either appeal or attendance.

The idea that fans would neither recognize nor care about the difference between today's funny car-like Pro Stock bodies and something that looks like a showroom car is preposterous. It's one of the major gripes with NASCAR for *years*. Setting rules that create performance, parity, and wheelstands is hardly arcane. It's irrelevant if the "average" fan knows how or why the "resultant competition" is close and exciting. Additionally, it's NHRA's job to educate that fan base so that they *are* more knowledgeable about what they are watching, thus enjoying and appreciating it more.

[ALMACK]

There's not one single piece on a Pro Stock that is "stock"

( as defined as a piece used by an automaker in the production of their street legal cars)

[Bernie Cunningham]

For many years now I have been saying that it's 'technology' that is killing all sorts of motorsports, not just NHRA Pro and Sportsman. I'm talking about any king of propelled vehicle all over the world.

Technology has transformed racing into a boring sport because the competition between racing apparatus has gotten too close and too predictable.

All forms of racing are affected, consider Formula One that has battled with this for decades with many, many ideas and changes trying to keep it exciting while affordable with unlimited budgets from the teams.

You only have to look at the bracket like consistency of a modern day Top Fuel car to see it, very boring.