Just talkin' here,

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by J.R. Haddad

Dan, you're points, while self serving, are not valid. As mentioned above,
NHRA has more cars than they can handle. That doesn't serve us well,
as we drive all over these 2 large countries chasing grade points. If you wanted to go to a Washington NFL game, and they told you that you
had to go to 8 college games of THEIR choice before you could buy the NFL tickets, you would tell them
that they were nuts and walk away. That's what we do now in S/SS.
Why? Cause we're sick and twisted and have the NHRA needle in
our arm. We also have the greatest group of friends one could ever
hope for. We have a great time if we lose, and an even better time if
we win. There is a reasonable amount of youth scattered amongst the
classes, but if you think the 60's, 70's and 80's hot rodding era will re-invent itself, it ain't gonna happen. I'm going to enjoy and love what we have while we have it. J.R.

Not about NHRA..Not self serving.
It is About more business to local tracks.
As for hot rodding it is always reinventing itself..!
The new generation defines what that is.

Yes and do enjoy what we have...!

D

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Tom...you wrote it down..Dan wants slow(er) cars..!
You are taking a back stroke now?
D

Dan.....You're the man, it's good to have you around. Don't let me ruffle your feathers.
I did write it down.....You want Pure Stock and Crate Motor cars.....That's the slow cars I was referring to.
I don't know if I need to work on my communication skills or your reading comprehension.....'cause I'm not trying to argue.

I'm trying to make you understand that NHRA has too much on their plate already, trying to keep the "big show"(not Stock & SS) classes in check. Tech Inspectors/Officials are stretched thin trying to maintain control of those classes. It's asking a lot to have Officials knowledgeable in the nuances of these classes and capable of conducting an thorough teardown on a Stocker or Super Stocker.
Your average Top Sportsman/Dragster team brings just as many paying crew to the track as Stock and SS. NHRA doesn't have to tear down these cars, yet gets to profit from the expanded certifications and safety equipment required for these classes. Certainly you recognize that.....We don't have to like it.

I hope you don't think I want Super Stock and Stock to go away, that's not the case. But we need to be aware that pushing for more classes in an already crowded and challenging Eliminator doesn't serve to improve the sanctioning body's viewpoint.
I don't have the answers to the situation, I want to understand why we see seemingly arbitrary decisions taking place.

[63corvette]

I no longer race stock however, I still race since retirement SG so I see this from several classes perspective. I have class win trophys before they were Wallys.
NHRA has cut its staff and the length of the events so the stock and super stock classes which require more tech time (staff for fuel check and weights/classification) in my opinion will continue to suffer.
Just look what happened to Pro Stock.
NHRA does not even tech cars at the Nationals however, fuel checks etc are required for some of the classes which takes time and staff.
SG, SC, TS, and TD takes no time for staff at the Nationals. No tech or fuel checks.
Weight for these classes is the only requirement and that is not always done.
The real issue for all those classes except SG is the time it takes to run those classes due to burnouts across the starting line and the TS and TD taking so long to prepare for their run.
From my perspective NHRA is all about cutting costs to run the events and it costs them more to run some classes than others. TV time is also a consideration.
It is really all about money and that is the same thing in any business.
Just My 2 Cents and Observation
Rick Cates
Canyon TX. SG 56 in 2019. SG 76 in 2020

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by 63corvette

It is really all about money and that is the same thing in any business.
Just My 2 Cents and Observation
Rick Cates
Canyon TX. SG 56 in 2019. SG 76 in 2020

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Dan.....You're the man, it's good to have you around. Don't let me ruffle your feathers.
I did write it down.....You want Pure Stock and Crate Motor cars.....That's the slow cars I was referring to..

Thank you Tom
This is fun Bench Racing..
Nobody can get a Ticket !

Still do not understand SLOW CARS..!!
PS and CM could fit well in the current A-Z index.
PS cars would fit from G to T/S.
CM's go all the way to AA/S.
Figure my F/PS would fall between O/P/Q/R.
Depending how NHRA rated PS Engines.

My contention is that lower cost alternatives invite Hot Rodders to get into our Sport.

As for NHRA Management, dig what you wrote in your second Paragraph.

My question is what made it work before all the cost cutting?
What made it work before some of the rule changes?

You could buy a car from the Dealer, tune it up and go racing in Stock.
That is what Bracket Racers do now and nobody is considering Stock.
Reeling in new racers to our sport is like fishing, need to lure them in.

There are a lot of second hand affordable Chevy SS, GTO, G8, Dodges, Mustang, Camaro on the market racer want to get into PS.
They are not going to tear a car completely apart to race them in Stock.
Most do not have the facilities.

If I were managing NHRA and the issue is with too many cars.
Would spread it out to a 10 day week.
Have Class Run Offs, National Record Runs, Tear Down, T&T, 4 races
Pair down and race 8 on Saturday. Finalists on Sunday of each heat.
Have some evening entertainment.

One thing that kills Public Interest is the lack of National Records.
That was a real thing years ago.
One minor issue no Points are earned setting them.

I am trying to provide ideas and solutions.
Majority of our cars are 30 ,40, 50, 60, 70 years old.
Our generation is passing away very quickly.
The Big 3 have made some hot new cars which have been a big hit.

Young racers in our day were 20..now more like 50 - 80 years old.
That would be interesting to know everyone's age.
Still most of the older well healed drivers are buying the new cars.

Peace

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

I agree about the non profit however, it is still all about the money.
Not for the membership or entries would be less and payouts more.
Today it is all about the pro's show and money.
It was just my observations from sportsman racing NHRA since the 1960's.
Rick Cates
Canyon TX.

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

I agree NHRA is "supposed" to be not for profit....and we understand why and how they maintain that status. I'm trying to understand the TV side of the "business". It seems that since NASCAR is losing TV share, maybe NHRA is trying to find some footing as a broadcast venue. I wonder where the profits (if there are any profits) go. Could the broadcast market be split into a something separate from the racing organization? Could the pressure on the Sportsman program be a way to consolidate the "fast/exciting" TV broadcast? Perhaps NHRA is trying to create some kind of "reality TV/racing broadcast" package that doesn't include the current Sportsman program?

I know......Kinda' crazy......No I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. Just tossing ideas out.

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Still do not understand SLOW CARS..!!
PS and CM could fit well in the current A-Z index.
PS cars would fit from G to T/S.
CM's go all the way to AA/S.


My contention is that lower cost alternatives invite Hot Rodders to get into our Sport.


My question is what made it work before all the cost cutting?
What made it work before some of the rule changes?

You could buy a car from the Dealer, tune it up and go racing in Stock.
That is what Bracket Racers do now and nobody is considering Stock.
Reeling in new racers to our sport is like fishing, need to lure them in.

I am trying to provide ideas and solutions.
Majority of our cars are 30 ,40, 50, 60, 70 years old.
Our generation is passing away very quickly.
The Big 3 have made some hot new cars which have been a big hit.

Young racers in our day were 20..now more like 50 - 80 years old.
That would be interesting to know everyone's age.
Still most of the older well healed drivers are buying the new cars.

Peace

Dan, I made a few edits, hope that's okay.
I see your thought process. You made some good points here. The problem is, your thinking with your heart. You love class racing like the rest of us. That's not NHRA's thinking anymore, those people might still exist there, just not in any meaningful corporate positions.
I'm not sure NHRA is motivated by a love of the Sport at this time.

[Nick Heath]

I think most racers appreciate the idea of reviving the pure stock of the old days. Buy a new Ford Mustang GT, drive it to the track, race for a trophy. Drive it home, work on it, drive it to the track again. It sounds awesome on paper. The problem is that I see too many external factors working against it.

We've discussed repeatedly how millennials don't care about cars, etc. Let's ignore that and limit our conversation to "millennials who have an active interest in cars" - how many can afford a brand new $40,000 Mustang GT? How many can even afford a used $20,000 Pontiac G8? And if they can afford the hot rod, can they afford a second vehicle (to get them to work every day), safety equipment costs, and the repair costs if they grenade an engine or transmission? I don't know how many 5.0 Coyote or 6.2 LS3 engines are sitting around in junkyards. And even if they can afford all of that - can they afford time off work, entry fees, fuel costs, hotel rooms, etc.?

This leads to the next problem - NHRA has been cutting S/SS quotas consistently over the last few years. They obviously do not care about the $$$ from the extra entries they're slashing. So if $$$ is not enough, what motivation does NHRA have to add these additional cars? Remember the additional work that goes into tech'ing a Stocker vs. tech'ing a Top Sportsman car.

On the flip side, why in the world would the hero of our story have any interest in driving his Pontiac G8 all over the country to get enough grade points to enter a national event? A national event, where he has to take time off work to show up on Wednesday or Thursday, sit around and watch as his category is bumped by rain, crashes, oil downs, Diesel Outlaw Snowmobiles, or whatever other sideshow attraction has been added to the schedule, and maybe get two runs down the track for the entire weekend? You see a lot of street cars at the Test/Tune days because it's easy. There is no tech inspection, no teardown, no grade points, no nonsense. Most tracks have good Test/Tune or Street Drag programs, so it makes a easy day trip, and you certainly get a lot more return (runs down the quarter mile) for your investment (time and cost).

I truly love Stock and Super Stock racing and want to find a way to expand its appeal and enable its survival long into the future - I just don't see how the worsening NHRA structure is going to accomplish that.

[Mike Jones]

I agree, Top Dragster, Sportsman and FS looks like the future. As far as the traditional S/SS cars, there might be something to the nostalgia angle, with new stuff sprinkled in, for spectator interest at local levels. I don't know how many posts like this, we need anymore. Have fun while you can.
MJ