Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights - Page 4

Tom Goldman · 08-20-2020, 09:43 AM

Kevin, I've been neutraling my Glide and clicking off the engine for 30 plus years with no issues or special parts .
Over the years I have rollerized the transmission , but had no issues before with babbet sleeve bearings.
For me it's never been an issue about oil pressure ,It's about turning unnecessary revolutions in the engine and valvetrain and not using it for a "Jake Brake".
There are a few short shutdown tracks I leave it in gear a little bit ,but it pains my ears hearing the engine being used as an anchor !
If there is any downside to this it is there is a spike in trans temp but it drops as soon as you fire up and drive to the timeslip booth.
A side note on the valve alignment issue , I have seen misalignment issues with both Transmission specialties and early ATI cases due to boor bolt hole /shifter shaft hole alignment.
I had a customer co thru 3 sets of high gear clutches in 50 runs before I saw the same issue you had .

Ed Wright · 08-20-2020, 10:48 AM

My ProTrans (T350) has the “Clean Neutral” option for that.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 08-20-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

I found it on the http://www.brianswayneonline.info/index.html
Swayne has the pictures of the non rear pump and the rear pump VB's and they are different.Check out the size, spacing difference of the passages around the spool valve area!!
I would bet the spool valve that goes with each is different. It is not shown... :~(
I will try to upload the picture. You can use that link and look around for the pictures is you like. well, another case of Al's internet paying off with info!! :~) Kevin, I'm just like you... didn't know that one!!

Thank you very much for the schematics of the valve body. Sometimes when using some one else's race trans, it's sometimes hard to find out just what the fine points of each builder's transes are. The schematic really helped. Now its time to compare some spool valves without mixing anything up and see what the differences are. Thanks again,Greg
P.S. Are the cases the same from a rear pump earlier aluminum trans to the later ones without the rear case?

63corvette · 08-20-2020, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376

Thank you very much for the schematics of the valve body. Sometimes when using some one else's race trans, it's sometimes hard to find out just what the fine points of each builder's transes are. The schematic really helped. Now its time to compare some spool valves without mixing anything up and see what the differences are. Thanks again,Greg
P.S. Are the cases the same from a rear pump earlier aluminum trans to the later ones without the rear case?

The oil passages at the rear of the cases are different from rear pump models and the non rear pump models (both alum cases).
If you block off the rear passages with a plate and drill the rear pump case for a transbrake it works the same as a non rear pump case.
The plate blocks the oil bleed to the stock rear support where the governor is removed also.
Hope this answers your question.
Just my experience.
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

Greg Reimer 7376 · 08-21-2020, 12:07 PM

I always have subscribed to two philosophies in life, personal mottoes if you will, one being that if you didn't learn something new each day, you've wasted the day. The other personal motto is the saying"Success is the best revenge".
I decided to assemble some transmissions that I have around the place, and needed to check for a stuck pressure reg valve in one that lost trans oil pressure, so I disassembled the valve body. The previously posted exploded view of the PG OEM valve bodies came in handy. The fact that there were two different manual valves concerned me. I slipped the manual valve out of the valve body I was working on and looked it over, everything was OK, no binding in the valve body, etc. but any Glide guy knows that the valve body has two parts, both cast iron, with a date code in the casting right below the OEM part number. I got curious, went into my store room where there is a couple of plastic milk bottle crates full of PG small parts, and I dug out a couple of valve bodies and brought them out front for evaluation.Here's what I found:

The upper castings were all part number 3847715.The four that I looked at were cast on
C 10 3, E 27 8, F 15 4, and A 23 7.

The lower casting, the main part of the valve body that bolts to the trans case, had GM part number 3819476. The date codes on these 4 were:
6 9 3, F 13 8, F 18 4,and C 27 7.

This indicates two early transes with a rear pump, and two late ones without a rear pump.

The next comparison was when I took the spool valve(manual valve), out one at a time, for comparison. The two later (post 66) glides had the spool valves with the slender spool about 2/3rds of the way back, the other two had the spool valves with the wide spools all the way back.

The rear pump disappeared in mid 66 or so, I never really took one of those apart to verify it. If I come up with a core with the valve bodies cast in 1966, I'll check and see which manual valve it has.
It would probably be wisest to stay with whichever spool valve you currently have rather than switch them and discover you now have a problem where you didn't have one before.

Some time ago, one of our local racer friends came up with a 69 Camaro convertible with a 250 inch 6 cylinder, and a cheap version of the Glide called a Torque Drive. It was a manual shift trans with no governor, passing gear accommodations, and no automatic upshift at all. I would have liked to dissect it and inspect what made that one different, but I never got the chance. Those transes were rare when they were new, so there's no use looking for one 50+years after they were made.

Hope all this helps. I'm no authority on transmissions, there are many excellent ones, but it was interesting learning a few things!!

Lyn Smith · 08-21-2020, 01:35 PM

Always wondered why GM made that Torque Drive trans. Back then a Powerglide transmission probably only cost them $50.to make, and they had to come up with a cheaper one? Saw a 69 or 70 Nova in a wrecking yard a few years ago that had a 4 cylinder and a T Drive trans in it. Bet they didn't make a whole lot cars with that combination.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 08-21-2020, 01:52 PM

I wanted to open one up and see what they did to make it full manual. I was interested in seeing if the valve body might be useful in a stocker, at least a low horsepower slower car. It seems like it was an afterthought. I wonder how many people just stuck it in High rather than knowing that it was designed to be manually upshifted while they drove around slowing everybody else down that was stuck behind them?

Adger Smith · 08-21-2020, 11:33 PM

Greg,
Did you compare the diameter of the boost valves in the two different valve bodies?
It would be interesting if one was a higher pressure than the other.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 08-23-2020, 07:14 PM

No, I have not. Which valve on that exploded picture is the boost valve? I would assume the bore diameter of all those valves is probably the same, there doesn't at first glance appear to be a difference in valve bore size, but I haven't totally disassembled anything in search of something like that. I remember in the days of working on cars in dealerships, running changes used to come along when engineers came upon a better way to do things. Sometimes a technical service bulletin would come out describing changes, sometimes not. I suspect the valve with the thin spool about 2/3rds of the way into it, and the varied spacing between two of the valves near the center of the valve could be because of a running change. It would be imperative to be sure your linkage is perfectly adjusted and that the little pin that engages the manual valve isn't bent or the plate that it comes off of isn't damaged, either.

08-20-2020, 09:43 AM	#31
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,475 Likes: 886 Liked 863 Times in 235 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Kevin, I've been neutraling my Glide and clicking off the engine for 30 plus years with no issues or special parts . Over the years I have rollerized the transmission , but had no issues before with babbet sleeve bearings. For me it's never been an issue about oil pressure ,It's about turning unnecessary revolutions in the engine and valvetrain and not using it for a "Jake Brake". There are a few short shutdown tracks I leave it in gear a little bit ,but it pains my ears hearing the engine being used as an anchor ! If there is any downside to this it is there is a spike in trans temp but it drops as soon as you fire up and drive to the timeslip booth. A side note on the valve alignment issue , I have seen misalignment issues with both Transmission specialties and early ATI cases due to boor bolt hole /shifter shaft hole alignment. I had a customer co thru 3 sets of high gear clutches in 50 runs before I saw the same issue you had . __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK Last edited by Tom Goldman; 08-20-2020 at 09:48 AM.

08-20-2020, 10:48 AM	#32
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights My ProTrans (T350) has the “Clean Neutral” option for that. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

08-21-2020, 12:07 PM	#35
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,135 Likes: 172 Liked 704 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights I always have subscribed to two philosophies in life, personal mottoes if you will, one being that if you didn't learn something new each day, you've wasted the day. The other personal motto is the saying"Success is the best revenge". I decided to assemble some transmissions that I have around the place, and needed to check for a stuck pressure reg valve in one that lost trans oil pressure, so I disassembled the valve body. The previously posted exploded view of the PG OEM valve bodies came in handy. The fact that there were two different manual valves concerned me. I slipped the manual valve out of the valve body I was working on and looked it over, everything was OK, no binding in the valve body, etc. but any Glide guy knows that the valve body has two parts, both cast iron, with a date code in the casting right below the OEM part number. I got curious, went into my store room where there is a couple of plastic milk bottle crates full of PG small parts, and I dug out a couple of valve bodies and brought them out front for evaluation.Here's what I found: The upper castings were all part number 3847715.The four that I looked at were cast on C 10 3, E 27 8, F 15 4, and A 23 7. The lower casting, the main part of the valve body that bolts to the trans case, had GM part number 3819476. The date codes on these 4 were: 6 9 3, F 13 8, F 18 4,and C 27 7. This indicates two early transes with a rear pump, and two late ones without a rear pump. The next comparison was when I took the spool valve(manual valve), out one at a time, for comparison. The two later (post 66) glides had the spool valves with the slender spool about 2/3rds of the way back, the other two had the spool valves with the wide spools all the way back. The rear pump disappeared in mid 66 or so, I never really took one of those apart to verify it. If I come up with a core with the valve bodies cast in 1966, I'll check and see which manual valve it has. It would probably be wisest to stay with whichever spool valve you currently have rather than switch them and discover you now have a problem where you didn't have one before. Some time ago, one of our local racer friends came up with a 69 Camaro convertible with a 250 inch 6 cylinder, and a cheap version of the Glide called a Torque Drive. It was a manual shift trans with no governor, passing gear accommodations, and no automatic upshift at all. I would have liked to dissect it and inspect what made that one different, but I never got the chance. Those transes were rare when they were new, so there's no use looking for one 50+years after they were made. Hope all this helps. I'm no authority on transmissions, there are many excellent ones, but it was interesting learning a few things!! Last edited by Greg Reimer 7376; 08-21-2020 at 01:17 PM.

08-21-2020, 01:35 PM	#36
Lyn Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pontiac,il. Posts: 1,199 Likes: 282 Liked 965 Times in 194 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Always wondered why GM made that Torque Drive trans. Back then a Powerglide transmission probably only cost them $50.to make, and they had to come up with a cheaper one? Saw a 69 or 70 Nova in a wrecking yard a few years ago that had a 4 cylinder and a T Drive trans in it. Bet they didn't make a whole lot cars with that combination.

08-21-2020, 01:52 PM	#37
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,135 Likes: 172 Liked 704 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights I wanted to open one up and see what they did to make it full manual. I was interested in seeing if the valve body might be useful in a stocker, at least a low horsepower slower car. It seems like it was an afterthought. I wonder how many people just stuck it in High rather than knowing that it was designed to be manually upshifted while they drove around slowing everybody else down that was stuck behind them?

08-21-2020, 11:33 PM	#38
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights Greg, Did you compare the diameter of the boost valves in the two different valve bodies? It would be interesting if one was a higher pressure than the other. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 08-21-2020 at 11:33 PM. Reason: add

08-23-2020, 07:14 PM	#39
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,135 Likes: 172 Liked 704 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Powerglide damage from 'clicking' engine off in lights No, I have not. Which valve on that exploded picture is the boost valve? I would assume the bore diameter of all those valves is probably the same, there doesn't at first glance appear to be a difference in valve bore size, but I haven't totally disassembled anything in search of something like that. I remember in the days of working on cars in dealerships, running changes used to come along when engineers came upon a better way to do things. Sometimes a technical service bulletin would come out describing changes, sometimes not. I suspect the valve with the thin spool about 2/3rds of the way into it, and the varied spacing between two of the valves near the center of the valve could be because of a running change. It would be imperative to be sure your linkage is perfectly adjusted and that the little pin that engages the manual valve isn't bent or the plate that it comes off of isn't damaged, either.