? of the day

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Doug Hoven

I understand what you're saying completely. The issue they are trying to get at is when people "not saying you specifically" use their latest and greatest ignition boxes/ecu/data logger, or a combination of all three, to make changes to how fast the car is going down the track without any input from the driver. In the grand scheme of things, they are relatively "not all that expensive," but there is a decent makeup of racers that either can't afford them, or don't know how to use them. It's the same argument like aftermarket engine parts in stock. Those that have a combo that don't have the aftermarket support/can't afford the aftermarket parts will be against allowing them. But those that can afford it and have combos that benefit greatly from them will be impossible to convince why they shouldn't be allowed to have them. As with everything in life, you can't make everyone happy no matter what you do.

Doug I get it. Some people are stuck in time and don't like change. Believe me I was one of them. I hated all the enhancements we were given threw the last 20 years. And I understand some combo's have received more than others. You also have to send in parts to get them approved. And you need to campaign for approved parts for your combo. I can say I haven't asked for any but there is a way to. For me as they say I'm not going to bring a knife to a gun fight. If you run A and B stock along with some others popular classes you better be prepared for a heads up run. If not have a safe trip home. BP

[Robin Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Let's see if we can reign this thread in, before it spins out of control, okay?

Let's say we have, oh I don't know, a factory experimental Stocker that runs 9.30's
Assuming he or she can leave the line at zero timing or 30% throttle with NO wheelspin,
can a pre-programmed run be installed into the EFI operating system , whether it be a Grid or an original computer, that will duplicate an earlier run?

Non scientific poll here:

YES____ NO_____ I DON'T KNOW _____ I DON'T CARE_____

Not on ours.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Billy I make a conservative look left of center. BP

We've talked enough for me to know that! I just couldn't resist!

[Bob Bender]

[QUOTE=B Parker;668574]Bob Welcome to the 2020's. How do you take care of the EFI's. Their boxes can do most of everything a grid can do but even more. Ban the 6al box because I never used one!!!! Why don't we all go back to points in our distributors. Most of the people that seem to be against the grid boxes are the ones that don't use them. Or even understand how they work. Don't hate educate. BP[/QUOTE
Don't be a hater... luv you buddy...ps the points still work fine...

[Blackgar]

Sure seems to be an awful bunch of talented drivers out there that don’t vary a dial more than a couple of hunderths but seem to be able to run within a few thousants at 5-7 mph difference. Wonder how many could do that if all speed sensing divides including driveshaft, diff, trans or wheel speed were disconnected during eliminations. Just my observation

[Charlie Yannetti]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Billy, Charlie and Frank have you guys ever used a grid or a Race Pac. I would much prefer one of the old digital boxes but they don't make them anymore. I have both a carb car and a ETI car. The EFI car has it all over the carb car with the grid. If you know a way that you can use the grid to cheat lets here it. Now I wish I could tune the carb car as it went down the track. Anything that you can do with the grid you can
petty much do with the EFI cars. There maybe a few exceptions but I not aware of any. BP

I'm not an expert at using the grid and this year of racing is over for me. But next year come on over if your at a race I'm racing at. I'll plug the grid into my computer and show you what it can and can't do. I'd worry more about delay boxes or boxes with in another box.

I use a 7AL-3 box in my car, and have a RacePak Sportsman in my car... they are independent of each other.. the 7AL-3 is my ignition box, and the RacePak Sportsman monitors the sensors in my car.. I'm not sure of any way that I could use the electronics to assist me in the deadly dialing of my car.. HOWEVER, I have been told, and I have witnessed several drivers, only having to hit the tree, as the "Cheater Grid" has them on their dial.. I have brought this to the attention of NHRA, with negative results.. they did tell me that there is a device for testing the Grid, but there is only one of them, and it's not available at this race.. IMAGINE THAT!!!

As with the Matty Box, there are a limited number of individuals that have access to the secrets, but I'm sure that the info is available if you happen to be a trusted friend..

Am I saying that those using the Grid system have the ability to cheat??.. ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY.. especially in the Super classes, where it's the same dial every time..

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Doug Hoven

I’m even more antiquated than that in the Nova. I run a 6T, with a “soft touch rev control” plugged in to that, then a 2 step plugged in to that.

Same here, that 6T has been in my car for 30 + trouble free years. I only wish the box full of dead 6ALs in the garage would have been that reliable!

[Robin Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Charlie Yannetti

. HOWEVER, I have been told, and I have witnessed several drivers, only having to hit the tree, as the "Cheater Grid" has them on their dial.. I have brought this to the attention of NHRA, with negative results.. they did tell me that there is a device for testing the Grid, but there is only one of them, and it's not available at this race.. IMAGINE THAT!!!A..

The grid is as benign as your MSD 7 box. Yes you can program timing curves.

Now if it has the ARC Module attached it can use timing retard to save a run by following a rpm trace.

That ARC Module or the previous use of that box, within a set period of time can be detected by the tester that you mention. Every DD was given one.

But, you can loan them yours if you wish. MSD Part number 89973.

I think that people are giving these components a lot more credit than they deserve.

Nothing is impossible. With the right amount of money and time I am sure anything can be compromised. We work hard to give NHRA the tools to ensure that our products haven't been modified.

Robin

[ProfessorRock]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Wouldn't that be like contracting with Rich Matty to look for Matty Boxes?

so I said to myself I'm not going to get involved in this discussion but if I'm gonna be part of this forum I guess I might as well just stick my foot in it let the chips fall where they may because I think in order to save the sport it as we know it somebody not only has to say something someone (all of us}have to do something. OK so Mr. Billy you make a good point but if mr. Matty we're selling boxes to everyone because they were legal then he could check to make sure they were legal cheaters and he would make money and everyone would be on the same page, not that that's a good solution lol but you gotta have somebody who knows how things work in order to police them otherwise you R just bitching without providing any solutions.Solutions. so perhaps just perhaps -replacing Matty theoretically- with MSD ! and then handing out a Box to ea. racer at the race requiring Ea. to use it only and then collecting it post race. Would at least solve that problem. Whats that ?? of course they are going to make us pay for it.hahah. So - What do you think. So i am willing to give my honest opinion. And i think some of the rest of you should be voicing yours and not caring what someone else is going to say about you. Because there is just toooo many secrets out there in Stock and SS .
And i believe its is ruining our sport and our fun. Oh yeah the Pic attached tells how long i have been involved in this sport/game although not continously.

[PozQB14]

Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence

The grid is as benign as your MSD 7 box. Yes you can program timing curves.

Now if it has the ARC Module attached it can use timing retard to save a run by following a rpm trace.

That ARC Module or the previous use of that box, within a set period of time can be detected by the tester that you mention. Every DD was given one.

But, you can loan them yours if you wish. MSD Part number 89973.

I think that people are giving these components a lot more credit than they deserve.

Nothing is impossible. With the right amount of money and time I am sure anything can be compromised. We work hard to give NHRA the tools to ensure that our products haven't been modified.

Robin

I agree Robin, the grid gets much more credit than it probably deserves. You really need to run a racepak in conjunction with a grid to really maximize all the advantages it has to offer but theres still no place for that in the Stock Eliminator game. Especially on carb engines. There shouldnt be 8 egts and 2 O2's on a carb stocker motor, because the technology you need to have to utilize that stuff isnt stock. The grid can still be advantagous at the starting line when the track is going away but that should be only for super stock. And there should be zero cars with wires on their rear ends period, idc how much you spent on your car. But Holley has provisions for sensors to "help" your high horsepower stocker launch on marginal tracks.

But here is where the water gets muddy Robin. Plimpton innovations has techonolgy out that works with a holley system that acts as a weather station hard wired into your ECU. And no, this will not work with a grid as you need inputs and outputs for this stuff to work. In the simplest terms, you can get a baseline run in different weather conditions and use this new tecnology to add and pull timing and fuel during a run to maintain the same speed as your baseline. In more or less words, you can write your dial with a sharpie marker on your window for the weekend. The people I work with are into the turbo scene on small tires and crap who roll their eyes at us stock and super stockers. But all the sensors they are using to make their high HP cars work on awful tracks are the same stuff guys with EFI could be using in the NHRA lanes. And theres noone to police it.