How crazy would it be.....

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

Yes on the request process, no not under the engine family rule, once HP is applied under the AHFS, even if not the specific car/engine combo it says it cannot be reduced.

When did the TBI 2.2 or the carbureted 2.2 ever get a HP hit?
The NHRA giving a combo an arbitrary factor over it's "base" rating isn't the same as an AHFS hit.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

When did the TBI 2.2 or the carbureted 2.2 ever get a HP hit?
The NHRA giving a combo an arbitrary factor over it's "base" rating isn't the same as an AHFS hit.

June 2003, and says it is a moot point when asked why or who. All I wanted is evideence as to why.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

June 2003, and says it is a moot point when asked why or who. All I wanted is evideence as to why.

Your combo was NEVER factored because of a HP HIT! In 2003 it was DE factored from 110 to 107. You should easily get a HP reduction! Who are you talking to at NHRA?

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Your combo was NEVER factored because of a HP HIT! In 2003 it was DE factored from 110 to 107. You should easily get a HP reduction! Who are you talking to at NHRA?

Pat at NHRA Billy. In Feb 1996 it was reduced 110 to 99. June 2, 2003 it was re-factored to 105. I have asked why numerous times...the only answer was..."It is moot".

[Cglrcng]

Sry laughing tonight...took the advice went bracket racing, 5 days (still tomorrow left to go, cashed $950 so far Sportsman Semi Thursday, Low buck 200 no elect. gambler Friday night Semi split and Won Sportsman tonight...lol car is deadly in the 1/8th mile. It doesn't hurt when the D.A. bounces from 610' to 2,586, and back I'm a single day though, best air I have seen yet at Vegas but constantly changing.

Edit (I was not a big winner, The Schmall's family out from Wisconsin, specifically Andy Schmalls took the wins for everything big pretty much and had a golden event , big bucks gambler 48 cars @ 500. Each all Super Pro/Pro's , won it, Andy also won the low buck ( Non-electronic), gambler 48 cars 200 Ea. All fast cars except mine the slowest Stocker in the world and I was his victim in the round of 3-Semi's (he slammed me with a .004 and took another win), and more than a few Pro and Super Pro wins too.

But, my cashing on the pre-worked out agreed upon split at 6 left in and going 2 more rounds, was adequate 1,100. total cash and checks (with 1 win Saturday night), I learned a ton about the car in 44 passes over 5 days... What it is made of, and what it needs, lacks, and what improves to zero in on right now. Best dang racing vacay I have had since 1995. It was a blast. Went to 1/8th in Pro today added 1 more ck. And another loss to the Schmall's family in that round, that time to Andy's Dad (who could not fire for a few mins at the ready line, but I waited as we class racer's do (starter askingme if I wanted to put him on a clock, nope I wanted a race...he fired after a few mins(my engine temp was fine), then fired off off on me...but we raced and he put me down. Still a good race! It was fun. I even led a run for the money yesterday...at .002 over my dial...at the time slip booth at least, by the time I got to my pit, dialed in the radio only to hear a lady 3 prs behind me bettered me by a thou & took the 800.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

Pat at NHRA Billy. In Feb 1996 it was reduced 110 to 99. June 2, 2003 it was re-factored to 105. I have asked why numerous times...the only answer was..."It is moot".

Gary, I don't know about your 1996 claim (my old books are currently on loan) but in June 2003 your combo was de-factored from 110 to 107. You can't just "talk" to Pat. You have to notify his office in writing. I honestly can't imagine Pat telling a Racer in a 25 lb. class that 6 HP or 3 HP or even 1 HP is "moot".

[Cglrcng]

Billy,

Please download the 1984 DOD.xls file

Scroll down to Dodge Daytona 99HP (single asterisk (*) denotes the stk correct...and the double asterisks (**) the super stk factoring.

When they originally helped me in person at NHRA HQ early 1994 they applied the 110 which is the SS factoring. I ran it 1994-1997 in GF/SA at 110. 11HP up from factory rating of 99HP or more than 11%.

Ok, only look Daytona 2 dr hatchback 99HP Auto and stick ...mine is an Auto (*) both are 23.29 look down below the 105 Factoring and see the date of the change listed right below it says June 2, 2003. (6-2-03). HP 105.

Last day at Pomona 2023 I submitted a request to review online. Pat called me and told me that I did not qualify for the review (so that was not published in the list of personal requests published Dec. 2023).

That is due to my 3 passes at Pomona (AHFS issue), those 3 were off the trailer zero changes -.666 Q1, -.712 Q2, and E1 -.787 under...violating the -.550 or better 2 passes in a year called out in the AHFS wording. Ok, I requested the data (who, what, when, why it was re-factored to 105 on 6-2-03. Or point me to published data source please (like they keep zero files or have no data files on changes or archived National Dragster Files.

Billy, I know for a fact, nobody has ever raced the exact combo (1984 Dodge Daytona 2 door hatchback 2.2L/135 CI 99HP TBI 23.29 (*) Auto except me.

The last change was affected on 6-2-03 setting it factored at 105HP. I have my original reduction letter reducing it Feb. 1996 from a fictional 110HP (it never was or should have been on the 99HP TBI), to 99HP (back to the factory rated HP of 99), as all data historical were mine and only my passes. And nothing from mfg to December 1995 warranted in their findings any HP hit or increase based on the actual real life performance. Of course that was all pre-AHFS.

At that point he could not or would not provide or point me to any resource and flat stated all that was moot...I do not qualify period.

My request triggered the personal phone call. I followed the process. I understand in December my request was denied due to my real life performance at Pomona 2023. I was denied (or his words "Did Not Qualify to make the request per AHFS -.550 under (2 passes or more), at that time performed in 2023 at the final event in Pamona (-.666 Q1, -.712 Q2, and -.787 under E1). My fault for not understanding the AHFS enough and screwing up...BTW, Pomona is the only place ever that combo has ever run those kind of numbers...ever. January 1995 and November 2023. Just a YFI.

It did, I screwed up running it there. Whodathunk it....-.226 at Vegas a week before, stick it on the Irving's trailer without even a bath, zero changes and right off the trailer a week later and -.666 under first Q pass.

Ok, all said and done, it is a year later, If the data exists concerning the listed change back on 6-2-2003 why the secrecy. Because nobody but me personally has ever historically ever run the 1984 Dodge Daytona 2.2L/135 CI 2 door hatchback TBI (non-turbo) in NHRA Competition at Nat./Div. Events ever, and if so provide or point me to that data please. Same question I posed in May 1995 at Englishtown, NJ (when running it in Class alone as to who pulled 110 HP out of their rectum. I was told "that did not happen, that does not happen, that has never happened...but he will go check", he did and the result was astonishing to him...all passes on that specific car/engine combo (1984 mfg date to present as of May 1995 were all passes made 1994-May 1985 by none other than Gary Lucier and none others, and none were a reason or even close to reason to apply HP to that specific Car/Engine Combo period.

He told me to request that review...in Dec. 1995 I did, request was granted Feb. 6, 1996 at 99HP from 110 HP and they added the 4313418 intake manifold my car came from the factory with which was a 3rd week Dec 1984 build and the intake change was a mid year Oct. 1984 change and they failed to provide NHRA the change until they requested the data from Chrysler (May 1995 at Englishtown,NJ on the phone straight from my cars build sheet). They added that change to the NHRA spec. Sheet same day as my request was granted back to factory rated 99HP Feb. 6, 1996 (all verifiable by their own change dates right below the published changes on the .xls files we can download online from NHRA and I have original copies of all said files).

Somewhere, the data exists concerning the re factoring to 105HP on 6-2-2003 exists in their files, or it does not. Just like perhaps the original 110 HP factoring did before that when I personally presented the car at NHRA HQ...someone pulled that out of thin air as that exact combo had never been raced before I did, and since.

Nobody is willing (I don't know if they are able), they just are not willing to even discuss it. Stated that is all moot). That was his word, not mine.

Or freaking just provide the raw unfiltered data if it exists to their own changes that affect a racer by 150 lbs., and if there is verifiable real performance data show it please. That is all I have ever asked. I asked twice in my lifetime for a review (1995 and 2023), 1995 was granted in Feb 1996. By the time they reset it to 99HP I was out of money chasing a 110 HP factoring for a couple of years hauling a ton of unnecessary weight around, and it was put away for 26 yrs., it is out of mothballs and racing. (The ** S.S. factor is 110. That was the initial screw up in 1994). I long ago forgave them for that error. How could it get from 99 in Feb 1996 back to 110 while I sat out? (I have that letter granting the reduction to 99).

What caused the factoring of 6 HP on 6-2-2003 (to 105HP), is all I asked. They throw HP on something show the math or show the archived data.

[Billy Nees]

Ok Gary, it seems that you have all of the facts and I'm missing something. Good luck, don't give up and if I can be of any assistance, let me know.

[Cglrcng]

There is no 1996 claim. They keep properly archived data of all submitted requests for reviews. The keep all archived data (copies of their own letters granting requests for reductions I assume), and I have the copy of the letter granting the request and the reset
back to factory 99HP rating. No more factoring as of Feb. 1996 plus the addition of the intake. Check that date below the addition of the 413 intake in he specs sheet. Same date as their letter to me.