Crate Engines in NHRA?

[Chipper Chapman]

When I said parts aren't easy to find for old combos, I meant it. The population of all 3 maritime provinces of canada (where i live) doesen't equal that of most single US cities. Therefore there never were as many castings and far fewer now. So if i find a set somewhere else and them have them shipped to me, At 50 or more pounds each, all of a sudden those old castings aren't cheap. Buying something new over the counter makes a difference. And good luck finding crack free 624 heads around here too. And no, moving isn't an option just to find castings or race. Thats why i started to build a CM car, I asked a simple question and some of you got your panties all up in a knot as if I want to kill stock eliminator.

[Mark Callanan]

Originally Posted by Chipper Chapman

When I said parts aren't easy to find for old combos, I meant it. The population of all 3 maritime provinces of canada (where i live) doesen't equal that of most single US cities. Therefore there never were as many castings and far fewer now. So if i find a set somewhere else and them have them shipped to me, At 50 or more pounds each, all of a sudden those old castings aren't cheap. Buying something new over the counter makes a difference. And good luck finding crack free 624 heads around here too. And no, moving isn't an option just to find castings or race. Thats why i started to build a CM car, I asked a simple question and some of you got your panties all up in a knot as if I want to kill stock eliminator.

How about a motor that is already done?
Or a used motor that still has some life in it
If you want it to happen it will.....

[Ed Fernandez]

Chipper,I'm sure there's guys from your area who come down here to the States who can bring parts back to you.That would solve your rare for your area parts problem.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Chipper Chapman

When I said parts aren't easy to find for old combos, I meant it. The population of all 3 maritime provinces of canada (where i live) doesen't equal that of most single US cities. Therefore there never were as many castings and far fewer now. So if i find a set somewhere else and them have them shipped to me, At 50 or more pounds each, all of a sudden those old castings aren't cheap. Buying something new over the counter makes a difference. And good luck finding crack free 624 heads around here too. And no, moving isn't an option just to find castings or race. Thats why i started to build a CM car, I asked a simple question and some of you got your panties all up in a knot as if I want to kill stock eliminator.

Couldnt agree with you more. Lets kill stock eliminator with our crate engines just like they killed modified production. Go burn some tires and books while we are at it...

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Well then there's three trains of thought.
1)Spend the money for a combo with all the "hard to find parts and castings".
2)Look in the guide for a combo that you can find/buy parts for.(For example I run an AMC,there's a ton of parts available if you want to search them out)
3)The description that Dwight used is the ultimate definition of a bracket race car.You can do that.After all we get reminded now and then that class racing isn't suited for everybody.

answers
1) found out quickly that there isnt any stock or superstock guy that sells a "good" combo. They squirrel everything away and sell the junk and advertise it as good.
2)I love AMC's but do I really need to answer why there are so many parts
3)Answers like this will kill stock eliminator for good. Wow racing NHRA stock is apparently like getting in the Union or being accepted into the Town Legion.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Ed, I have to disagree with you on the statement that what I said is the "ultimate definition of a bracket race car". When I see bracket racing only, I see cars where the performance level of the car is little importance. It doesn't matter if you have a 700 cu.in. motor with two Dominators and a blower on N2O in an Opel Cadette body dialed in at 16 seconds as long as it passes safety requirements. Where you have a clearly defined set of engine specs, body modification specs, limitation on engine definition selection, defined performance expectations, and you are faced with the possibility of racing someone heads-up with no breakout, that is outside the definition of bracket racing.

Besides, I'm not a crusader for crate motor cars or classes. What I am concerned about is why all the vehement reaction to the idea? Any claim to retain the "purity" of Stock Eliminator loses its impact when you consider the liberties of replacement and aftermarket parts rampant throughout the tech bulletins and class guides. It's even more lost when you look at some of the modifications allowed and the inclusion of cars and engines that were never available in production outside the parts counter or special order forms. Even on old cars where we know what they were when they were purchased new, we allow transmissions, cylinder heads, rear ends, etc. etc. that didn't even exist when that car was produced. If the crate motors and cars they are installed in are governed by the same restrictions and the competition venue is the same, why is that such an unacceptable idea?

Now why cant everyone see it like you do. Yea look through the pits and take a glance at some of the combo's that never were. Never knew a monza, vega that ever came with a 12 bolt never mind swallow a 30x9 tire but thats a part of the game. I really think that most of these guys think that the crate deal has light HP rating and a shallow index when really we dont. Cars are the same as a traditional stocker, engines are built as a traditional stocker. Looks like a duck sounds like a duck its a duck.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

answers
1) found out quickly that there isnt any stock or superstock guy that sells a "good" combo. They squirrel everything away and sell the junk and advertise it as good.
2)I love AMC's but do I really need to answer why there are so many parts
3)Answers like this will kill stock eliminator for good. Wow racing NHRA stock is apparently like getting in the Union or being accepted into the Town Legion.

I never said for you to build an AMC.Just used the example of "different" combos available.
And I meant you could have stock castings brought up to you from the States for the
combos you can't get parts for up where you are.You have John Armstrong up there if you want to build a killer combo,otherwise I'm sure there's competent builders that can prep the parts for you to make your car a legal NHRA car.Or just keep your crate combo and run association races.We have choices in life.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

I never said for you to build an AMC.Just used the example of "different" combos available.
And I meant you could have stock castings brought up to you from the States for the
combos you can't get parts for up where you are.You have John Armstrong up there if you want to build a killer combo,otherwise I'm sure there's competent builders that can prep the parts for you to make your car a legal NHRA car.Or just keep your crate combo and run association races.We have choices in life.

And I wasnt bashing your AMC combo like I said I do have a soft spot for those cars. Im just in shock at the hard headed guys who can't accept that this will eventually have to happen sooner or later. These guys are making it sound like there is still wrecking yards with 375hp 396 cars still out there. Ya ok...please tell me where. I know that there is alot of guys out there that have and are still collecting old parts but 5 out of 10 casting are butchered and are not usalble. A 350/295hp combo and a 350/330 hp crate combo built to stock eliminator spec will make the same HP on the dyno within 10hp....so whos at the disadvantage here? Without the NHRA factor worked into the equasion I have to carry 35hp more weight so whos going to be faster?

[Ed Fernandez]

My reply to this thread is that we're only a few small steps,perpetrated by NHRA's
inability to control the runaway changes and lack of enforcement of rules,from having S/SS go away.The racers who kept pushing for changes and upgrades to equipment
and rules are hastening this process.
The addition of crate motors to the mix will only speed up the process.
I never raced Stock when Farmer was around,but I'd be willing to bet all this replacement
of parts bull$hit wouldn't fly if either he or someone like him was in charge of race operations.I've heard from lots of old timers that he was tough,but fair.
Finis.

[Ed Wright]

Ed, your right about Farmer. No B.S. He was tough, not everybody liked him. I did. Strict is good.

I don't run Stock, so don't have a dog in this fight. But, why would anybody think crate motors are the coming thing in NHRA? Like they are the future? Seriously? I can see them getting rid of S/SS before adding more classes. :-)

I just can't imagine building something that could only run with one association, either one, then expect the other group to make classes for them. No logic there.