Crate Engines in NHRA?

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

The advantage of being able to build a motor with commonly available parts that can be serviced easily is attractive to many people who are not personally capable. Having the option of a list of additional motors for more optional classes sounds exciting to me. That makes some cars more attractive that are currently restricted to a single production engine.

Umm Dwight, that sounds like a perfectly good definition of Bracket Racing to me. Div. 2 just came out with some "optional classes" at points races, they're called 10.0,11.0 and 12.0.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by mark callanan

Just curious
Since you are from Canada where do you race that?
Are you a class racer or a weekend racer at a local track?

CanAm stock/superstock series in Ontario Canada. We race in cayuga, grand bend and now london and try and hit a few IHRA races but there is usually a problem with cash or schedual so I just hit the Grand Bend IHRA national event and thats it.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

CrateCamaro, I agree with what you say about the attitude that frequently is displayed here. Nobody really thinks or promotes the idea that somebody can go to the dealer, buy a motor out of stock, put it in a car and go competitive racing. The advantage of being able to build a motor with commonly available parts that can be serviced easily is attractive to many people who are not personally capable. Having the option of a list of additional motors for more optional classes sounds exciting to me. That makes some cars more attractive that are currently restricted to a single production engine.

Thanks for the positive imput that isnt shown on here at all. Its a good entry level class that will attract possible local bracket racers to change their cars over to run, or attract a young up and comer to build and race a sportsman class without going broke looking for garbage castings.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Blast away if it makes you feel good, I could care less.

Id much rather be hashing this out over a few cold ones in the garage

Like I said no internet wars...you have your opinion, I have mine and we will agree to dissagree.

Not sure where you are from but we are surrounded by stock car hillbillys that have used up all of our good castings and because of economical times in our "steel town" alot of good castings have been scaled at the wreckers in trade for a 12 pack of cheap beers. All of our wrecking yards are picked of anything 1978 and down...its very rare to see a 441 head...usually its a 336X. Every good set of castings in our yards are gone. I will admit i am a die hard stock eliminator fan....I have been on the hunts for cars and castings only to come up with rotten old junk...our best find was a 69-70 Impala (so smashed and rotten we needed to contact next of kin to tell us what it was) 350 300hp that was in this yard since 1971. Yank'd the heads and intake only to find the heads were so rotten the valves were part of the chamber. There was a q-jet onto of the intake that resembled whats in a box of powdered pancakes. This is what turned me off of "casting number" racing and got me into crate class. Vortec heads, any intake under the stock hood, 750 carb, stocker cam and it will run. And if you want to go 5 under the index no trick parts required...5+ and up buy the trick parts.

[Alan Roehrich]

There ain't no hotter bed of circle track racin than right here in Tennessee. They've used up the supplies around here, but you can still find stuff.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

Id much rather be hashing this out over a few cold ones in the garage

Like I said no internet wars...you have your opinion, I have mine and we will agree to dissagree.

Not sure where you are from but we are surrounded by stock car hillbillys that have used up all of our good castings and because of economical times in our "steel town" alot of good castings have been scaled at the wreckers in trade for a 12 pack of cheap beers. All of our wrecking yards are picked of anything 1978 and down...its very rare to see a 441 head...usually its a 336X. Every good set of castings in our yards are gone. I will admit i am a die hard stock eliminator fan....I have been on the hunts for cars and castings only to come up with rotten old junk...our best find was a 69-70 Impala (so smashed and rotten we needed to contact next of kin to tell us what it was) 350 300hp that was in this yard since 1971. Yank'd the heads and intake only to find the heads were so rotten the valves were part of the chamber. There was a q-jet onto of the intake that resembled whats in a box of powdered pancakes. This is what turned me off of "casting number" racing and got me into crate class. Vortec heads, any intake under the stock hood, 750 carb, stocker cam and it will run. And if you want to go 5 under the index no trick parts required...5+ and up buy the trick parts.

Well then there's three trains of thought.
1)Spend the money for a combo with all the "hard to find parts and castings".
2)Look in the guide for a combo that you can find/buy parts for.(For example I run an AMC,there's a ton of parts available if you want to search them out)
3)The description that Dwight used is the ultimate definition of a bracket race car.You can do that.After all we get reminded now and then that class racing isn't suited for everybody.

[dartman]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Umm Dwight, that sounds like a perfectly good definition of Bracket Racing to me. Div. 2 just came out with some "optional classes" at points races, they're called 10.0,11.0 and 12.0.

Soon it will only be 10.0,11.0 and 12.0 in Nhra, with no stock, as it way easier to police and the money is the same to them(NHRA).the car will only have to be safe to race,so it make tech fast and cheap to run with less people to run it.the fans will see some heads up race which is easier to understand.so it coming and we all will have to find something to do with our stockers.


now this is only my 2 cents.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

3)The description that Dwight used is the ultimate definition of a bracket race car.You can do that.After all we get reminded now and then that class racing isn't suited for everybody.

Ed, I have to disagree with you on the statement that what I said is the "ultimate definition of a bracket race car". When I see bracket racing only, I see cars where the performance level of the car is little importance. It doesn't matter if you have a 700 cu.in. motor with two Dominators and a blower on N2O in an Opel Cadette body dialed in at 16 seconds as long as it passes safety requirements. Where you have a clearly defined set of engine specs, body modification specs, limitation on engine definition selection, defined performance expectations, and you are faced with the possibility of racing someone heads-up with no breakout, that is outside the definition of bracket racing.

Besides, I'm not a crusader for crate motor cars or classes. What I am concerned about is why all the vehement reaction to the idea? Any claim to retain the "purity" of Stock Eliminator loses its impact when you consider the liberties of replacement and aftermarket parts rampant throughout the tech bulletins and class guides. It's even more lost when you look at some of the modifications allowed and the inclusion of cars and engines that were never available in production outside the parts counter or special order forms. Even on old cars where we know what they were when they were purchased new, we allow transmissions, cylinder heads, rear ends, etc. etc. that didn't even exist when that car was produced. If the crate motors and cars they are installed in are governed by the same restrictions and the competition venue is the same, why is that such an unacceptable idea?

I personally like your #2 option.

[Alan Roehrich]

Dwight, while we can't undo what has been done already, at least so long as NHRA is involved, a lot of us would like to see the changes stop, here and now. I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't be mad if they told us to put the TH 400 back in the car, the 163 intake back on, and the iron heads back on. If the rule applied to everyone, I'd be just fine with it.

No, we can't turn back the clock, but we can try to keep it from continuing. I'd just really rather not see Stock get further and further from the original intent and character of the class. It's obviously not doing anything to keep the car count from falling, never mind getting it to grow. If the changes continue, there'll be nothing left of the real Stock Eliminator. To me, that would be a tragedy.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Ed, I have to disagree with you on the statement that what I said is the "ultimate definition of a bracket race car". When I see bracket racing only, I see cars where the performance level of the car is little importance. It doesn't matter if you have a 700 cu.in. motor with two Dominators and a blower on N2O in an Opel Cadette body dialed in at 16 seconds as long as it passes safety requirements. Where you have a clearly defined set of engine specs, body modification specs, limitation on engine definition selection, defined performance expectations, and you are faced with the possibility of racing someone heads-up with no breakout, that is outside the definition of bracket racing.

Besides, I'm not a crusader for crate motor cars or classes. What I am concerned about is why all the vehement reaction to the idea? Any claim to retain the "purity" of Stock Eliminator loses its impact when you consider the liberties of replacement and aftermarket parts rampant throughout the tech bulletins and class guides. It's even more lost when you look at some of the modifications allowed and the inclusion of cars and engines that were never available in production outside the parts counter or special order forms. Even on old cars where we know what they were when they were purchased new, we allow transmissions, cylinder heads, rear ends, etc. etc. that didn't even exist when that car was produced. If the crate motors and cars they are installed in are governed by the same restrictions and the competition venue is the same, why is that such an unacceptable idea?

I personally like your #2 option.

Hi Dwight,the description in your post is more akin to abracket car than a traditional stocker.My three options would be the basis for keeping the work stock in Stock Elim.
The only enhacements from stock in my car are a fuel cell,two step and headers.Pretty much everything else is common to my car.And mine is one of the odd ball combos.
It's amusing that the early Fords can't use the alum center section,but BB chevies and Fords get aluminum heads.Two speed autos can use 3 speed autos now.I wont even go ito the DP and CJ cars.
I've been told by some old coot that a 50's or 60's GM car had a magnesium center section.Maybe the GM guys can wrangle that into their cars.
How's the "skunk works project" coming along?