Index Change

[Alan Roehrich]

Myron, Billy, I agree with both of you. That is why I say the idea that the new cars are going to bring in newer younger Stock and Super Stock racers has zero basis in reality. New cars simply will not do it. And the way the new cars have been brought in to Stock and Super Stock will do far more to hasten the demise of the classes than they could ever do to "save" them.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Alan, I hate to say it but todays young racers don't want the structure or comitment involved in running Stock or SS. I help out a bunch of kids at the local track and they just don't understand why I waste the time messing with stock stuff when I can buy so much "shiney" stuff and go so much faster. I'm not saying that they WON'T get it eventually but I doubt it.

Billy, you are absolutely right. My best friend has an Outlaw Drag Radial mustang. He doesn't have the money to compete nationally but he'd got about 70k tied up in the car. It will run low 8's at well over 160. He doesn't understand class racing, and why we spend so much money to go "so slow" in his eyes. I could dig some 10.5 stuff, but only all motor with a stick shift, then it would be really fun.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

What's your fix? - all that stuff and more is bogus anyway, I suggested what I did because the only way to stop it, is to let everyone have it.

By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

NHRA is not going to "fix Stock, nor are they going to "save" Stock. Or Super Stock for that matter. If the classes are to be saved, it will be by the racers. Whether or not they want it bad enough remains to be seen. By what can be read here, the answer to that is "no".

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

[Billy Nees]

Hey Art, if you're going to allow the earlier cars ported heads what do I get? Ported heads don't do me any good! Can I have my choice between a big superceded carb or nitrous?

[Evan Smith]

Many young drag racers don't understand S/SS racing, but there are thousands of young people competing in NMCA, NMRA, ADRL and other HEADS-UP associations where they have classes with structured rules and plenty of tech. The difference is that the racing is heads-up and the cars are much faster. For the cost of my Stocker I could be running 9s not low 11s and high 10s. They can purcahse new parts, not scrounge up old parts, not to mention that they get coverage on TV and in magazines.

If anyone thinks this type of racing is po-dunk, they should attend and you'd be amazed at the professionalism of the cars, teams and the overall show.

These associations make their racers into small-time heros, which is something NHRA or IHRA will never do because they have the Pros. Of course, none of those organizations would exist without the NHRA, which sanctions the tracks, helps with insurance and overall structure and overall promotion of our sport.

Evan

[SuperStockDodge]

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?[/QUOTE]

And where is this "updated" rule change for everyone to see???