Index Change

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

[SuperStockDodge]

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?[/QUOTE]

And where is this "updated" rule change for everyone to see???

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by RJ

The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

They'll still consider Stock a problem. They do not want to tech for Stock at all. You're still having them tech with your "solution" and they don't want to. So your "solution" still requires them to tech, which they do not want to do, and only serves to further dilute the class.

Nice pun on the clutchless deal. As to my thoughts on clutchless transmissions in Super Stock, I'm not really in favor of it, although I have a couple of older friends it will help. The truth is, we all know people are using clutch assisted transmissions like a clutchless box. How do you fight it? That goes back to the rest of the problem with NHRA.

I'm not looking to "turn back the clock", as nice as that might be. It probably is neither possible nor feasible, as things stand. But we can make an effort to stop the progression. If we don't, we might just as well pack it in now and go bracket racing. If you keep diluting it, we might just as well never open the hood anymore.

[SS Engine Guy]

The whole idea of "enhancements", and loosening of the rules starts when you are afraid to enforce the rules. Instead of a year off it has been the fashion to write a rule revision making the illegal parts legal. That is the sign of influence. (read that however you want).

The whole basis of S/SS has always been to take the rules and work within them to see how fast you can go. Not change the rules to pacify someone or some group who intimidates you.

Two "groups" have been solely responsible for this. Neither group can work on their own stuff enough to get under the index much less be fast. However, these two groups may have not been able to accomplish what they have if it weren't for the added support of the "hero worshipers" that think that anything their heros do is right.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by RJ

No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

[Billy Nees]

Hey Art, if you're going to allow the earlier cars ported heads what do I get? Ported heads don't do me any good! Can I have my choice between a big superceded carb or nitrous?

[Evan Smith]

Many young drag racers don't understand S/SS racing, but there are thousands of young people competing in NMCA, NMRA, ADRL and other HEADS-UP associations where they have classes with structured rules and plenty of tech. The difference is that the racing is heads-up and the cars are much faster. For the cost of my Stocker I could be running 9s not low 11s and high 10s. They can purcahse new parts, not scrounge up old parts, not to mention that they get coverage on TV and in magazines.

If anyone thinks this type of racing is po-dunk, they should attend and you'd be amazed at the professionalism of the cars, teams and the overall show.

These associations make their racers into small-time heros, which is something NHRA or IHRA will never do because they have the Pros. Of course, none of those organizations would exist without the NHRA, which sanctions the tracks, helps with insurance and overall structure and overall promotion of our sport.

Evan

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by art leong

One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

I finally told Greg, Marty, and NHRA how to identify a Canadian head when I worked for NHRA back in the very early 70's. No need to carry a head with you.