Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock

[Mike Fuller]

Interesting piece. If it does replace pro stock how much will the cost go up?

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Mike Fuller

Interesting piece. If it does replace pro stock how much will the cost go up?

A lot !
First of all , you'll need two sets of new tires for every race. One for qualifying,..one for the eliminator.
Oh, you guys think you won't need them? Maybe not, but the well financed pro team in the other lane will have them.
Yes, and you'll need crew members, gaskets, special tools, etc. , for the tear down.
Yes, tear down. These ARE Stockers, right?
They left them alone for a year, and look what happened.
Somebody sprinkled water on their supercharger, and it grew bigger.
Imagine that.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

A lot !
First of all , you'll need two sets of new tires for every race. One for qualifying,..one for the eliminator.
Oh, you guys think you won't need them? Maybe not, but the well financed pro team in the other lane will have them.
Yes, and you'll need crew members, gaskets, special tools, etc. , for the tear down.
Yes, tear down. These ARE Stockers, right?
They left them alone for a year, and look what happened.
Somebody sprinkled water on their supercharger, and it grew bigger.
Imagine that.

That is funny! And no one got tossed either...

[nhramnl]

Let's not forget that this problem has been going on for decades. NHRA is completely incapable of enforcing the rules in any category, and the result has always been a gradual but steady increase in complexity and cost. Stockers used to actually be substantially stock. When they were, a racer could actually build one and compete at Divisional and even National events. He would load his Stocker on his open trailer, and his pickup would pull it to the track. Nowadays, He puts his $125,000 car in his stacker trailer and pulls it with a $200,000 toterhome. I feel (and admit that it's just my observation) that all categories have been allowed to do literally whatever they want, and the result has been former fans just losing interest, primarily because they don't understand the differences between categories and classes. Also, NHRA has made National events into circuses, with snowmobiles, bracket cars, Pro Mod, Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. Super Stock used to be an actual draw, because people who understood and loved the cars and what racers were able to make them do, would run to the fence to watch the wheelstands, whenever they were called. Finally, we shouldn't forget that many of today's kids couldn't care less about cars. Sure, Junior Dragster offers an option to the few who do intend to grow up in the sport, but the majority of kids would rather play video games. Everything has a life span, and that's usually because what starts out as a simple, great idea gets distorted into something you can't even recognize.

[Paradigm Shift]

We’re fortunate to have many bright, creative and resourceful members that contribute to this forum and it’s a pleasure to state that I learn from them each time I visit. I’m certain that other members are like-minded in this regard.

Before any additional energy is expelled by the release of thought/idea vectors that emanate from the Classracer nucleus, and prior to taking up cudgels for Pro Stock, Factory Stock or both, let’s use reverse gear and return to the origins of this thread.

Mike’s initial post referenced a short article that can only be understood to imply that a Pro-Stock hauler today is no less than a rolling sarcophagus, likely of limestone. Its ornate decor has been transformed to hieroglyphics, requiring the Rosetta stone to provide clarity and understanding.

In our organization, it's vital to fully understand a problem prior to attempting to create and implement a resolution.

The great man, Albert Einstein stated (and I paraphrase) – Give me an hour to save the world and I’ll spend 55 minutes defining the problem and 5 minutes resolving it.

So let’s begin the exercise.

The referenced article reinforced human nature. We’re very adept at creating solutions. Solutions are much more pleasurable and seemingly productive than analysis. The author spent considerable time discussing his proposal of a solution but very little time was consumed toward clearly defining the problem.

· Does Pro Stock have a problem? If so, what is it?

[cutta]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shift

We’re fortunate to have many bright, creative and resourceful members that contribute to this forum and it’s a pleasure to state that I learn from them each time I visit. I’m certain that other members are like-minded in this regard.

Before any additional energy is expelled by the release of thought/idea vectors that emanate from the Classracer nucleus, and prior to taking up cudgels for Pro Stock, Factory Stock or both, let’s use reverse gear and return to the origins of this thread.

Mike’s initial post referenced a short article that can only be understood to imply that a Pro-Stock hauler today is no less that rolling sarcophagus, likely of limestone. Its ornate decor has been transformed to hieroglyphics, requiring the Rosetta stone to provide clarity and understanding.

In our organization, it's vital to fully understand a problem prior to attempting to create and implement a resolution.

The great man, Albert Einstein stated (and I paraphrase) – Give me an hour to save the world and I’ll spend 55 minutes defining the problem and 5 minutes resolving it.

So let’s begin the exercise.

The referenced article reinforced human nature. We’re very adept at creating solutions. Solutions are much more pleasurable and seemingly productive than analysis. The author spent considerable time discussing his proposal of a solution but very little time was consumed toward clearly defining the problem.

· Does Pro Stock have a problem? If so, what is it?

Pro Stock Problems:

1. Money! This is obvious but the more money involved the more incentive for people to build cars to come race. Where does the money come from? Not sure but I can say for sure its not coming from NHRA. Its not going to happen and they've prove that year after year so lets not suggest that or assume they have the ability to market things better either, they've come up short there too going on many years. I truly believe the solution has to come from somewhere else where the dependence isn't on NHRA to survive. That goes for every other class too

2. A disappearing fan base. A changing fan base. How do you get people to consume the product that is Pro Stock better? I'm not sure of how to do this because the attention span of the generic consumer is small, their interest are changing/evolving, and how do we mesh that with a world of technology that is the source of much our entertainment these days. How do you bridge that gap?

These are two issues I see.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by nhramnl

Let's not forget that this problem has been going on for decades. NHRA is completely incapable of enforcing the rules in any category, and the result has always been a gradual but steady increase in complexity and cost. Stockers used to actually be substantially stock. When they were, a racer could actually build one and compete at Divisional and even National events. He would load his Stocker on his open trailer, and his pickup would pull it to the track. Nowadays, He puts his $125,000 car in his stacker trailer and pulls it with a $200,000 toterhome. I feel (and admit that it's just my observation) that all categories have been allowed to do literally whatever they want, and the result has been former fans just losing interest, primarily because they don't understand the differences between categories and classes. Also, NHRA has made National events into circuses, with snowmobiles, bracket cars, Pro Mod, Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. Super Stock used to be an actual draw, because people who understood and loved the cars and what racers were able to make them do, would run to the fence to watch the wheelstands, whenever they were called. Finally, we shouldn't forget that many of today's kids couldn't care less about cars. Sure, Junior Dragster offers an option to the few who do intend to grow up in the sport, but the majority of kids would rather play video games. Everything has a life span, and that's usually because what starts out as a simple, great idea gets distorted into something you can't even recognize.

So you're saying that the problem with today's Stock and Super Stock classes are the tow rigs and the other classes that have been allowed to run the events?

[Bob Mulry]

Just my 2 cents..........

For the old that can't remember or the young who weren't there, NHRA had a formula for success but they threw it away.....

Let me roll back the time machine to the 1970's & 80's.

Each Division had their own champions from Top Fuel to Stock and we competed at our HOME division tracks (you got more points)...

A race fan could go to a local track and see it all. Local sponsorship would sell to the buyers in the area, not hundreds of miles away.

If you wanted to be a World Champion you had to finish in the Top 10 of your division to be invited to the World Finals to compete for a World Championship.

We had local Top Fuel teams sponsored by gas stations..

The Pro's wanted to be Pro's I guess and then they only raced at National Events. What this did was remove the interest of a local fan to attend a local Divisional meet.

No Pro's no support. No fans. No money. No getting the next generation interested in what we do. Racing used to be affordable (ha ha) because even Top Fuel teams raced out of their own garages.

Have we become too professional for our own good?????

NHRA needs a complete overhaul to survive and going back will be a tough pill to swallow, but reducing the cost to participate is a step in the right direction..

If Pro Stock was affordable, with a pay out in line with expenses, there might be some new blood.

Do you think having the PRO's back at Divisional racers could increase the fan base????

I just remember how it was, with the stands filled and waiting the next issue of National Dragster to see if you still had a spot in the top 10 of your division....

I don't have a clue if this would work or if anybody wanted it work, but I do know that what NHRA is doing now isn't working.

Bob

[BRETV]

Originally Posted by Bob Mulry

Just my 2 cents..........

For the old that can't remember or the young who weren't there, NHRA had a formula for success but they threw it away.....

Let me roll back the time machine to the 1970's & 80's.

Each Division had their own champions from Top Fuel to Stock and we competed at our HOME division tracks (you got more points)...

A race fan could go to a local track and see it all. Local sponsorship would sell to the buyers in the area, not hundreds of miles away.

If you wanted to be a World Champion you had to finish in the Top 10 of your division to be invited to the World Finals to compete for a World Championship.

We had local Top Fuel teams sponsored by gas stations..

The Pro's wanted to be Pro's I guess and then they only raced at National Events. What this did was remove the interest of a local fan to attend a local Divisional meet.

No Pro's no support. No fans. No money. No getting the next generation interested in what we do. Racing used to be affordable (ha ha) because even Top Fuel teams raced out of their own garages.

Have we become too professional for our own good?????

NHRA needs a complete overhaul to survive and going back will be a tough pill to swallow, but reducing the cost to participate is a step in the right direction..

If Pro Stock was affordable, with a pay out in line with expenses, there might be some new blood.

Do you think having the PRO's back at Divisional racers could increase the fan base????

I just remember how it was, with the stands filled and waiting the next issue of National Dragster to see if you still had a spot in the top 10 of your division....

I don't have a clue if this would work or if anybody wanted it work, but I do know that what NHRA is doing now isn't working.

Bob

Bob, I think you're spot on with this post. I remember when my uncle was racing pro stock and they had to run the division races. Making the PRO's run the divsionals and gain points to move up would bring more fans and more PRO competitors.And in turn would bring more fans and competitors in all other classes.




Bret Velde
SS/LA

[nhramnl]

Originally Posted by Lenny5160

So you're saying that the problem with today's Stock and Super Stock classes are the tow rigs and the other classes that have been allowed to run the events?

Nope... not saying that at all, and I suspect you realize that. What I talked about isn't THE problem, but it is certainly ONE OF THE problems.